Important Question

[KenJoe]

Recently, my Instructor has had a horrible loss in losing another school of his. He had alot of connectiong with the members of the school and held alot of them as family.

To compress the story for time, the Sensei walked out on him and ended up having done some dirty business and the Dojo went bellyup. Come to find out the Sensei opened his own and took all his old students.

So here comes the question: From a Martial Artist point of view what is appropriate action. Not only for my instructor...but say from my point of view as well.

 

[MJS]

Recently, my Instructor has had a horrible loss in losing another school of his. He had alot of connectiong with the members of the school and held alot of them as family.

To compress the story for time, the Sensei walked out on him and ended up having done some dirty business and the Dojo went bellyup. Come to find out the Sensei opened his own and took all his old students.

So here comes the question: From a Martial Artist point of view what is appropriate action. Not only for my instructor...but say from my point of view as well.

IMO, I'd say move on and disassociate from the sensei in question. If your inst. is capable of opening his own school, I say go for it. If possible, he should find someone else to train under.

I have no idea how long your teacher has been teaching, owned the school, etc., but the last thing I would do would be to just give up. If teaching is something he enjoys, why not keep going.

 

[exile]

IMO, I'd say move on and disassociate from the sensei in question. If your inst. is capable of opening his own school, I say go for it. If possible, he should find someone else to train under.

I have no idea how long your teacher has been teaching, owned the school, etc., but the last thing I would do would be to just give up. If teaching is something he enjoys, why not keep going.

MJS is dead right, KJ. Sounds like an issue of integrity was involved. Your instructor was the one with it, it sounds like from your post, and the other guy... was the one without it. Stick with your instructor, and trust that things will work out—in spite of our inborn pessimism, I get the sense that they usually do work out, if people operate in good faith.

 

[kwaichang]

Depending upon how long your teacher had been in that position, and his rank at the time of the split, you might want to stay with the dojo operator who should have more experience and more to teach.

This happens all too frequently when heads but and one doesn't realize how much they have to learn yet.

Hope this helps.


35yrs -still a student-

 

[MJS]

Depending upon how long your teacher had been in that position, and his rank at the time of the split, you might want to stay with the dojo operator who should have more experience and more to teach.

This happens all too frequently when heads but and one doesn't realize how much they have to learn yet.

Hope this helps.


35yrs -still a student-

Under normal circumstances, I'd say yes, but in this case, going by what the OP said, it seems this Sensei in question was doing some questionable things. Regardless of how much experience, I'd rather go with the person who is more considerate of his students.

Mike

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It does sound like the one person was doing some shady dealings. Unfortunately this is something that happens in commercial Training Halls all the time. (locally I have witnessed this myself) In your case look at it from the perspective of who you would want to associate with based on integrity, honesty, etc. Once that is figured out then I think your choice is easy.

 

[KenJoe]

My Instructor, the one with integrity, is a 6th Degree Black Belt in Kenpo, trained under Ed Parker, Al Tracy, back in the day. And he still owns a school were I live and I am with him till the end, no question.

The man that took his students operated his school in another state, and was intrusted with it while he came out and built the school were I live and is a 3rd Degree Black I believe...never met him.

My question mainly stims from what you guys think is correct action in terms of honor and justice in the Martial Arts and what you think is an correct action in terms of how my instructor should handle what happened and what my actions should be if any.

Should I just let my instructor handle it in whatever way he decides, or is there something I should do in the sense of justice in the Martial Arts. This question has weighted on my heart for a long while and I just thought I should get everyones ideas on it.

 

[MJS]

My Instructor, the one with integrity, is a 6th Degree Black Belt in Kenpo, trained under Ed Parker, Al Tracy, back in the day. And he still owns a school were I live and I am with him till the end, no question.

The man that took his students operated his school in another state, and was intrusted with it while he came out and built the school were I live and is a 3rd Degree Black I believe...never met him.

My question mainly stims from what you guys think is correct action in terms of honor and justice in the Martial Arts and what you think is an correct action in terms of how my instructor should handle what happened and what my actions should be if any.

Should I just let my instructor handle it in whatever way he decides, or is there something I should do in the sense of justice in the Martial Arts. This question has weighted on my heart for a long while and I just thought I should get everyones ideas on it.

Personally, I'd let him take care of it. Of course, you could still offer him support for whatever decision he chooses.

 

[kidswarrior]

Personally, I'd let him take care of it. Of course, you could still offer him support for whatever decision he chooses.

Absolutely. Great advice.

Now if you're hinting at taking physical action of some kind against the betrayer, I'd let that go. No sense getting in a world of legal trouble over *lost* honor.

This is truly a case where I'd encourage you to look forward, not back. Just my 2 cents. :asian:

 

[7starmarc]

Unfortunately, honor and justice are often left out of business dealings.

Was the other instructor kind of a shark for the way he went about things? Possibly, it's really not for us to decide since the story is completely one-sided. But keep in mind, many junior instructors take those jobs with the specific intention of eventually becoming head of their own school.

Now, "stealing students" might be considered pretty low, but also think about how many of those students (in a separate state from your sensei) came to train at that school because of that instructor -- he was the one they signed up with.

If your sensei is truly hurt or feels betrayed by this move, probably the best thing he can do is insist that the other teacher not use his name or association in any advertisement or other marketing material. A lawyer could answer better, but I'm sure there's some process he could file to officially prevent such use or reference. This might be a bit sticking, since you're taling about crossing state lines.

Also, I'm not sure how your style handles such things, but in our style, there is a formal "family" tree that is kept. I had heard of one story where a disciple's name was stricken from the records because of a falling out with his Sifu. My understanding is that they later reconciled, with his name restored, but it was apparently quite a big deal for the people involved, at the time. (Specific names, events, etc. are withheld because I don't know the whole story, and would not want to be seen as stirring up old trouble).

 

[tshadowchaser]

Having had a student do the same thing as was described in the first post my personal thoughts on the subject are biased.
1. The best solution is to try to move on remembering what the signs where that could have let you/your instructor know that such an event was about to happen and to speak with any future instructor early if any of the same signs appear again.
2. By polite when meeting this person at events and hold yourself above name calling and the little things you really want to say (except to those you know very very well)
3. if this where 30 years ago my answer would be different but the courts do not seem to like my way of dealing with such an individual and the mental attitude of most martial arts people has changed in the last 30 years

 

[Kacey]

My question mainly stims from what you guys think is correct action in terms of honor and justice in the Martial Arts and what you think is an correct action in terms of how my instructor should handle what happened and what my actions should be if any.

Should I just let my instructor handle it in whatever way he decides, or is there something I should do in the sense of justice in the Martial Arts. This question has weighted on my heart for a long while and I just thought I should get everyones ideas on it.

You should let your instructor handle it however he decides; if you want to do anything, it would be best to tactfully offer your support and see if he takes you up on it.

Unfortunately, such things happen occasionally. It reflects badly on the practitioner whose integrity (or lack thereof) allows him/herself to follow the money instead of the honor. Avoid them when you know about them, rise above their antics when you can't avoid them; their karma will eventually bite them in the butt. But starting a fight - virtual, words, or physical - will only lower you to their level... and why would you want to do that?