Minimum age for BB?

[Kong Soo Do]

I'd like to pose a question for those studying in a traditional OMA and/or JMA; is there a minimum age in which a student can obtain a BB in your school/organization/Ryu?

Is there a reason that age was chosen?

While we're at it, is there a minimum or average time to obtain a BB?

Thank you.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

In Chito-Ryu, they have a minimum age of 14 for brown belt and a minimum age of 16 for a jr. black belt. They won't award a real black belt before 18. They won't take students before age 6. These requirements can differ slightly from school to school and some aspects of grading are at the senior instructor's discretion but they're very strict about their black belt age requirements.

I feel like the arbitrary age is actually intended to inflate the importance of achieving a black belt more than to protect the organization from potential liability. To me a black belt means you've grasped the basics and I don't think being 16 or 18 has anything to do with it. Character judgement is part of the instructor's consideration and character doesn't automatically solidify at an arbitrary age.

What's the purpose of a jr. black belt? That would be a brown belt. Don't get me started on the three white stripes/1 black stripe during the kyu ranks. Either you earn the belt or you need more practice. (The testing fees are included in the monthly fees up to the brown belt, so it's not a money grab, just annoying micromanagement). Just my opinion.

While it should take around 6 years to achieve with regular practice, personal instruction and training 5 hours per day would likely shorten this (again, at the discretion of the instructor). Most karate is roughly the same from what I hear, about six years of consistent practice to reach the black belt with arbitrary minimum ages of 16 or 18.

 

[chinto]

yes In Shobayashi Shorin Ryu the min age is 18 in the US ( at least on the west coast.) and in Matsumura Seito, 16 with special permition, but usually given at 17 or 18 as well.

I agree with this as well in the USA, Canada, and Europe most people consider any one with a Black belt to be an "Expert in Unarmed Combat" and that has legal ramifications if one is in a physical altercation.

At times people who might have been charged as juveniles were charged as adults because of that rank, and adults who might have been charged with a misdemeanor were charged with a felony on the basis of that black belt rank.

 

[Manny]

My own criteria. I don't own or run a dojo/dojang, I am only a humble instructor (2nd degree black belt in TKD) who teach in my sambonim dojang, however for me the minmum age to obtain a black belt must be 18 and yes with a very few exeption maybe a junior black belt no before 16.

If I've got my own dojang/dojo my policy will be no black belt under 18, and maybe no children below 10 will be admited.

Manny

 

[ballen0351]

We have junior black belts then teen black belts then adult rankings but when they move up to the next age group they dont keep the black belt. For instance we just had a teen black belt turn old enough to join the adult classes I believe he is 16 or 17 he was dropped down to an adult 6th kyu and will start from there and will have to work his way back up.

 

[oaktree]

I think a black belt is someone who can demonstrate and explain fundamental techniques proficently, able to use those fundamentals for self defense if need be, and
be of a mature character to represent the philosophy of the school. A child rarely can do all of this. At least in the teenage years can a person start to combine
this and know how to display each in its appropiate setting.

Thinking of a child obtaining a black belt means that he can show others below his rank how and why this technique works maybe not as well as upper levels but at least so a lower rank can understand the purpose of said technique.

A child may be able to use the techniques in a self defense setting but may lack enough worldly experience to be able to successfully know when and how to use it.
A child may be able to recite creeds or understand what self defense means but can not go deeper into concepts on how or why said founder thought this concept
is more ideal then others. I guess a child can not think logically, critically, or analytically.

 

[Jason Striker II]

Minimum age 16. No exceptions, ever.

 

[Zenjael]

I received my first dan at 7. It was in Moo Duk Kwan, Olympic style Tae Kwon Do. It is funny to think that the people who end up most usually evolving the art, who become geniuses at it, are the lucky few who begin at the youngest of ages, and get to experience it throughout their entire life. They get to have the 60 or 70 years we all hope to have, and more. A dan, or acknowledgment of standing within the art, should be awarded based upon ability and insight into the art, and if a 7 year old, a 4 year old, or a 40 year old, why should how long they have existed determine the actual depth of their knowledge? It seems unrelated to martial arts, to me, because our ultimate goal in every technique is to both unify ourself with the art, internalizing it, while at the same time removing ourself from it as much as possible, until our techniques are executed perfectly, and were as if meditating with a still mind. That's when movement flows, and mastery begins.

I can't say I deserved my ranking at 7... but I do think there are some who certainly deserve it, and might be younger than that age.

 

[Manny]

I received my first dan at 7. It was in Moo Duk Kwan, Olympic style Tae Kwon Do. It is funny to think that the people who end up most usually evolving the art, who become geniuses at it, are the lucky few who begin at the youngest of ages, and get to experience it throughout their entire life. They get to have the 60 or 70 years we all hope to have, and more. A dan, or acknowledgment of standing within the art, should be awarded based upon ability and insight into the art, and if a 7 year old, a 4 year old, or a 40 year old, why should how long they have existed determine the actual depth of their knowledge? It seems unrelated to martial arts, to me, because our ultimate goal in every technique is to both unify ourself with the art, internalizing it, while at the same time removing ourself from it as much as possible, until our techniques are executed perfectly, and were as if meditating with a still mind. That's when movement flows, and mastery begins.

I can't say I deserved my ranking at 7... but I do think there are some who certainly deserve it, and might be younger than that age.

Sorry but I can't agrre with you here. Is a 7 years old boy mature enough to drive a car? maybe this boy can drive, I mean he can learn to do it but because of this the boy deserves to get a driving permition.... mmmmm I don't think so. Childrenn and teens can be very good and surpass some adults in stamina, power, speed and tech but all these is enough to award them a black belt??? I don't think so.

Yes there are genius teens who earn a masters degree in science, here in Mexico we have a casa of a teen who besides to be a a nice hookey player and a black belt in TKD is studying medicine in a very prestigius university but...... this is ONE case in millions, however in these times we are seeing an increase number of children and teen black belts that lack almost anything to earn this.

In some cases children/teens black belts are trashing the credibility of martial arts with all the things like the McDojos or Belt factories thing, yes I know Ernie Reyes Junior become a black belt as a boy but maybe this will be one exeption.

In the dojang I teach I saw a lot of peewes wearing their poom blets and that's maybe ok but this is not a black belt.

Can you imagine a 3rd poom teen that turning 16 will be changed the red/black belt for a 3rd dan black belt... NO WAY!!! No doubt that maybe the teen is skillfull but this is not say he is mature enough to know the black belt meaning is.

Manny

 

[seasoned]

The "age" of understanding and responsibility. There are far to many kids getting far to many BB because they will lose interest. BS
Sorry post is short and not so sweet but it is what it is.................

 

[Instructor]

It's maturity based at our school though most are at least 15 years old.

 

[Zenjael]

A black belt, is not driving a car. Though both require technical skills, a car is designed for a human adult, whereas martial arts seems to be designed for the body as early as possible.

"stamina, power, speed and tech but all these is enough to award them a black belt??? I don't think so." I agree, insight of the art is. And that is possible regardless of age. I've seen a 9 year with a kenjutsu strike I can honestly say is perfect, and that is insight into a very difficult art of considerable depth.

The fact that you correlate age with insight into a philosophical art makes me wonder if you understand the meaning of your black belt. You see, it is just belt, and the respect you attribute to it should be less to the cloth, and the depth of ability in the art. Perhaps then you will see why your quoted statement is ironic- if a 5 year has perfect technique, they technically warrant a 3rd dan. 4th dan is awarded for philosophical understanding of the martial art, for it is only in understanding whereby one can teach, and create in the art, which is the ultimate goal of allllll the training before it.

A black belt is akin to enlightenment to me, though a small stage. An awakening, not the fulfillment. Enlightenment can come to anyone, at any time, for any reason.

 

[Grenadier]

What exactly is a black belt at a particular dojo? The meaning can, and often does, vary from one system to another.

Even within two schools of the same style, or even organization, it can convey a different meaning.

For my dojo, a black belt simply means that someone has a strong proficiency with his fundamental techniques, and has proven capable of executing such techniques in a solid, sound manner that is effective. There are several criteria, such as the ability to perform kumite of various types (jiyu, ippon, etc), as well as being able to demonstrate a working knowledge of such techniques in kata (Kanku Dai, Bassai Dai, Tekki Shodan, and the Heian series). Furthermore, a shodan in my dojo is one who has demonstrated consistency, as well as enthusiasm in his training.

Such a shodan holder should also be quite capable of learning more advanced techniques, and applying them in a similar fashion.


However, a shodan ranking does not confer any type of status as an instructor, whether it's as a junior sempai, a senior sempai, a sensei, etc. Instructor status is granted when someone demonstrates the desire, the ability, and the performance level (as an instructor) needed to handle such responsibility. For us, an assistant instructor must be at least 15 years of age, and even then, would not be in charge of a full fledged standard Karate class. For someone to be actually teaching a full fledged Karate class, the age requirements are such, that you have to be at least a high school graduate, in addition to all of the previous requirements.

While there are younger folks who do attain black belts in my school (and they have earned them 100%), they are not officially part of the instructors, although they do help us by simply being good examples to follow in the dojo. As a result, they realize they have an obligation to put their best feet forward, since the way they perform can certainly impact how others train as well.

 

[Victor Smith]

When Funakoshi first use the black belt he awarded it with one years training, as I remember it.
The standards for black belt are varied.

The only test that matters is how effectively the individual is training 10 or 15 years after receiving their black belt.

Many of the things that have been added to receiving a black belt have nothing to do with karate.

The only standard that I see a black belt means is the individual is ready for a new level of training. I currently have 30 years material in black belt students studies.

The best black belt test I ever participated in were an 11 year old boy and a 12 year old girl. A year later she entered national black belt weapons at a major Isshinryu tournament,and against men won first place.

Those who can do teach.

 

[chinto]

Yes, but the problem arises not so much in the dojo usually as the public perception of what that black belt means. To most of them it means that the individual is some kind of expert in unarmed, and even in some cases armed combat! That has legal implications for that person with that black belt if they are ever in an altercation, be it at school, home, or on the street. That is were the age factor becomes relevant.

 

[Victor Smith]

Then the problem is with the public perception and that needs to be changed.
Too young for black belt training, next too old for black belt training. Or only for men?

Perhaps the issue is to dumb for black belt training?

It's good enough for Okinawa....should be good enough for anywhere.

 

[chinto]

Its a cultural thing, some how people in the USA and Europe and such decided that any one who was a black belt was an expert. Go to Okinawa as a brown belt in an Okinawan system, you will more then likely be almost immediately promoted there. A shodan there I understand is considered a glorified brown belt in a lot of ways. Most dojo's in the US at least will not promote some one to shodan till they are of a noticeably higher proficiency then most shodans on Okinawa. again, cultural thing.

 

[Buka]

I think a student should be a minimum age of three years old before promotion to Black Belt. And along with the belt and certificate of promotion, there should be cookies.

 

[katagrl]

Buka, I'll go along with the cookies part.

 

[clfsean]

A black belt, is not driving a car. Though both require technical skills, a car is designed for a human adult, whereas martial arts seems to be designed for the body as early as possible.

Negative... a black belt is designed to notate a visual representation of a pre-set level of skill achieved. This skill is not solely based on physical performance, but mental & emotional as well.

"stamina, power, speed and tech but all these is enough to award them a black belt??? I don't think so." I agree, insight of the art is. And that is possible regardless of age. I've seen a 9 year with a kenjutsu strike I can honestly say is perfect, and that is insight into a very difficult art of considerable depth.

And your years of experience in kenjutsu is how many?? Along with everything else you've covered in your brief time sharing air??

The fact that you correlate age with insight into a philosophical art makes me wonder if you understand the meaning of your black belt. You see, it is just belt, and the respect you attribute to it should be less to the cloth, and the depth of ability in the art. Perhaps then you will see why your quoted statement is ironic- if a 5 year has perfect technique, they technically warrant a 3rd dan. 4th dan is awarded for philosophical understanding of the martial art, for it is only in understanding whereby one can teach, and create in the art, which is the ultimate goal of allllll the training before it.

A five year old?? Seriously?? You're questioning an adult (Manny) about his understanding of "the meaning of a black belt'?? Seriously?? Junior... my original black belt was already fading & shredding before you were born. You have a ton of nerve to question a senior (in life as well as verifiable MA training) if he understands something.

A black belt is akin to enlightenment to me, though a small stage. An awakening, not the fulfillment. Enlightenment can come to anyone, at any time, for any reason.

Then that shows you're far from getting it.