Martial Arts for every one

[Manny]

What do you think about the average Joe that wants to learn TKD or any other martial art? My question is because I don't think one must be gifted to train or learn a martial art, for example my master has three special students in his classes, one is a wheelchair guy, another with some kind of motor troubles (light cerebral palsy) and a down syndrome guy, Carlitos he is a second dan black belt. Please ad that the other children/moms/guys are regular people, people that goes to tkd to do a nice workout or because the parents wants their children to learn some moves to cope with bullies, or very enthusiatic people that want to learn a martial art, or the guys that wants to compete in tournaments and a very small percentage of students are the gifthed ones, the ones that can do spininig high kicks or tornado kicks or very fierce about sparring, these guys are very few and the gross of the classes are average joes.

One day I herd a karate sensei (a very cocky one) expresing he choose his students and the ones that can stay in his dojo are the students that showed to be good at karate or the ones that really endure the hard work, that if the student could not keep on or following his comands and request at classes this person will leave the dojo!!!

Manny

 

[SacredCoconut]

I don't think being fierce about sparing is about talent. Its more about the mindset and how seriously you take it.

In my eyes there is nothing wrong about the training in a way that only works for those that take it very seriously, but that ofc probely won't work unless its smaller group thing. I'm sure there are students that want to do train that way. Then again if your forceing ths to every one its wrong way.

 

[chrispillertkd]

What do you think about the average Joe that wants to learn TKD or any other martial art?

I think that the "average Joe" will make up the bulk of people who train in Taekwon-Do, or any martial art, at least at some point. They will sign up for class, give it a try, and decide whether or not it's something they want to pursue. Many will continue on treating Taekwon-Do as no different than the soft ball or bowling league they play in. Others will decide that they want to make it a guiding principle in their life and commit themselves to regular, hard training. The majority will quit.

Taekwon-Do will make you into what you put into it. It's very possible for an "average Joe" student to develop into an elite competitor, a real Master of the art, or a bully depending on what they bring to the table (and how they're influenced by their own instructor). But you won't know what a person has in them until they put the training time in on floor.

My question is because I don't think one must be gifted to train or learn a martial art, for example my master has three special students in his classes, one is a wheelchair guy, another with some kind of motor troubles (light cerebral palsy) and a down syndrome guy, Carlitos he is a second dan black belt. Please ad that the other children/moms/guys are regular people, people that goes to tkd to do a nice workout or because the parents wants their children to learn some moves to cope with bullies, or very enthusiatic people that want to learn a martial art, or the guys that wants to compete in tournaments and a very small percentage of students are the gifthed ones, the ones that can do spininig high kicks or tornado kicks or very fierce about sparring, these guys are very few and the gross of the classes are average joes.

It's important to not sell people short when it comes to expectations. Most people won't go to the WC's but can do fine at local tournaments. Most people won't become VII dans or higher but can become proficient in many aspects of the art through diligent training. You mentioned people who have various disabilities in your post. I have trained with several people over the years who had become quite proficient in Taekwon-Do despite having physical or mental disabilities. One of the very early Masters of the ITF, GM Ra, Yong Chul was missing his right hand and part of his forearm, but if you've ever seen footage of him you'll see he didn't let that stop him from becoming very proficient.

One day I herd a karate sensei (a very cocky one) expresing he choose his students and the ones that can stay in his dojo are the students that showed to be good at karate or the ones that really endure the hard work, that if the student could not keep on or following his comands and request at classes this person will leave the dojo!!!

Manny

People are free to accept whoever they want as students and run whatever kind of class they want. Some people run schools that are nothing but daycare centers for kids wearing white pajamas. Other people only want to train elite level competitors. Then there are the schools in between. If that instructors wants to only train students who have a certain level of physical skill that's his business, though I thin kit would be good if he let his students have a certain amount of time to see whetehr they can develop that kind of ability. The martial arts are for self-development, after all.

Pax,

Chris

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I know of some clubs that exclude people, but not directly. For instance one club's fitness requirements are so stringent thst it scares people off, thus excluding them indirectly. One particular club requires students to be able to do150 push ups, 150 situps and 100 squats before you can "enter the floor". If you cant do that, they suggest you come back when you can.These clubs are not tkd clubs though.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I know of some clubs that exclude people, but not directly. For instance one club's fitness requirements are so stringent thst it scares people off, thus excluding them indirectly. One particular club requires students to be able to do150 push ups, 150 situps and 100 squats before you can "enter the floor". If you cant do that, they suggest you come back when you can.These clubs are not tkd clubs though.

Seriously, who can do 150 pushups? With that requirement, how do they have more than 3 students?

 

[Rumy73]

No one is doing that many push up. The United States Marines do not even have such a requirement. I received my first dan from a school that required 100 push ups after breaking, kick demos, sparring, hapkido sparring and poomse. Here is the catch, the student could rest and take whatever time he needed. The same was with the 100 sit ups. It was more of a mental challenge to not quit. If the requirement was for uninterrupted push ups, it would have been farcical to believe anyone could do it. So I always have my eye on the catch.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Seriously, who can do 150 pushups? With that requirement, how do they have more than 3 students?

you would be surprised how many people can. I can do 100 but not 150. They seem to have a reasonable class size, I have had friends who train at these sorts of clubs, they are incredibly fit and conditioned. My father owned gymnasiums whe I was a kid and he would throw big end of years parties and things quite often got out of hand. My father had friends who trained at these sorts of clubs and would get them to do security for the night, everybody behaved when these guys were around

 

[ralphmcpherson]

No one is doing that many push up. The United States Marines do not even have such a requirement. I received my first dan from a school that required 100 push ups after breaking, kick demos, sparring, hapkido sparring and poomse. Here is the catch, the student could rest and take whatever time he needed. The same was with the 100 sit ups. It was more of a mental challenge to not quit. If the requirement was for uninterrupted push ups, it would have been farcical to believe anyone could do it. So I always have my eye on the catch.

Seriously, 100 sit ups is not difficult. 100 push ups is a different story. Its amazing what some people can do, I watched a crossfit class (it was an advanced crossfit class) recently and couldnt believe how fit/conditioned those people were, I was exhausted just watching it.

 

[K-man]

I know of some clubs that exclude people, but not directly. For instance one club's fitness requirements are so stringent thst it scares people off, thus excluding them indirectly. One particular club requires students to be able to do150 push ups, 150 situps and 100 squats before you can "enter the floor". If you cant do that, they suggest you come back when you can.These clubs are not tkd clubs though.

Did they have to do those exercises each day before training or just to be able to do that before they join the school? Years ago I could and did do more than 150 push-ups every night before bed. The catch is, that was when I was 18 and a reasonably proficient gymnast. These days I could probably only trot out 50 or so 'proper' push-ups before needing a break. Ralph, you have Bob Jones' ZDK guys in Sydney. They have to do 100 push ups and 100 sit-ups in their BB grading but they do it in lots of 25, alternating. Even then some of the push-ups are looking pretty ordinary towards the end.

But, I had a new guy start with me last year at age 65. I doubt he could even do 20 push-ups. Who cares? He has made the effort to get up off his **** and start training. And, he has hardly missed a class in 12 months. :asian:

 

[K-man]

One day I herd a karate sensei (a very cocky one) expresing he choose his students and the ones that can stay in his dojo are the students that showed to be good at karate or the ones that really endure the hard work, that if the student could not keep on or following his comands and request at classes this person will leave the dojo!!!

What immediately springs to mind is 'Cobra Kai' in the first 'Karate Kid'. :asian:

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Did they have to do those exercises each day before training or just to be able to do that before they join the school? Years ago I could and did do more than 150 push-ups every night before bed. The catch is, that was when I was 18 and a reasonably proficient gymnast. These days I could probably only trot out 50 or so 'proper' push-ups before needing a break. Ralph, you have Bob Jones' ZDK guys in Sydney. They have to do 100 push ups and 100 sit-ups in their BB grading but they do it in lots of 25, alternating. Even then some of the push-ups are looking pretty ordinary towards the end.

But, I had a new guy start with me last year at age 65. I doubt he could even do 20 push-ups. Who cares? He has made the effort to get up off his **** and start training. And, he has hardly missed a class in 12 months. :asian:

I agree completely, I dont think someone should be excluded because they cant do some ridiculous amount of push ups, age, for example, can be a factor in this also. I would rather someone get up off the couch and give it a go. They shouldnt have to be a cardio freak. Most of the clubs I am talking about are usually zendokai break away clubs who try and prove they are 'better' than zendokai to warrant breaking away in the first place. The push ups are nothing compared to what they put students through to test for black belt.

 

[K-man]

I agree completely, I dont think someone should be excluded because they cant do some ridiculous amount of push ups, age, for example, can be a factor in this also. I would rather someone get up off the couch and give it a go. They shouldnt have to be a cardio freak. Most of the clubs I am talking about are usually zendokai break away clubs who try and prove they are 'better' than zendokai to warrant breaking away in the first place. The push ups are nothing compared to what they put students through to test for black belt.

Although I am not ZDK, I have trained with them many times over the past few years. They are a lot different now to what they were 20 or 30 years ago. I have been invited to their BB gradings and although they were physically punishing, at least for Shodan and Nidan, they were no different really to what I went through. Interesting that they would break away because as far as I am aware there is no financial tie that makes it worthwhile for a school to leave the umbrella organisation. I would suggest there might be other reasons than 'better'. I know they won't tolerate behaviour that brings their name into disrepute. How things have changed! :asian:

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Although I am not ZDK, I have trained with them many times over the past few years. They are a lot different now to what they were 20 or 30 years ago. I have been invited to their BB gradings and although they were physically punishing, at least for Shodan and Nidan, they were no different really to what I went through. Interesting that they would break away because as far as I am aware there is no financial tie that makes it worthwhile for a school to leave the umbrella organisation. I would suggest there might be other reasons than 'better'. I know they won't tolerate behaviour that brings their name into disrepute. How things have changed! :asian:

I would imagine they break away because of ego, personal fall outs with superiors, or to make more money (I assume they pay something to use the zendokai name). I have two break away zendokai clubs running near my place, a mate trains at one of them. They never use the zendokai name though, but are former zendokai instructors. From what I am told, they are a lot more "full on" than zendokai.

 

[Rumy73]

Apparently you fail to appreciate context. One hundred sit ups alone is a minor challenge. One hundred sit ups after 100 push ups, sparring three rounds, hapkido sparring three rounds, all poomse 1-8, breaking, kick combos is not easy.

 

[K-man]

Apparently you fail to appreciate context. One hundred sit ups alone is a minor challenge. One hundred sit ups after 100 push ups, sparring three rounds, hapkido sparring three rounds, all poomse 1-8, breaking, kick combos is not easy.

Sorry mate. Just sounds like a normal grading to me. :asian:

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Sorry mate. Just sounds like a normal grading to me. :asian:

too right. Im building my cardio at the moment by doing half an hour bag work, an 8klm run, then finishing with 100 sit ups, and in the grand scheme of things Im not actually that fit.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Well, im not sure about excluding people based on pushups, but i do know of some small classes where the only way to join or even to know about it is to be invited by current students/senseis, an to get that, you have to be either dedicated or already pretty good. Not the largest classes by far, but pretty fun the few times ive gone to them

 

[K-man]

I would imagine they break away because of ego, personal fall outs with superiors, or to make more money (I assume they pay something to use the zendokai name). I have two break away zendokai clubs running near my place, a mate trains at one of them. They never use the zendokai name though, but are former zendokai instructors. From what I am told, they are a lot more "full on" than zendokai.

I don't think they pay a fee but they are expected to buy their gear from the club shop. ZDK have changed their style from the original focus on security and body guard training, 'bad ***', to a much more technical form of training with less emphasis on beating the crap out of each other. They also have reintroduced kata which they had thrown out back in the freestyle days. :asian:

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I don't think they pay a fee but they are expected to buy their gear from the club shop. ZDK have changed their style from the original focus on security and body guard training, 'bad ***', to a much more technical form of training with less emphasis on beating the crap out of each other. They also have reintroduced kata which they had thrown out back in the freestyle days. :asian:

Sorry to derail the thread, but which kata are zendokai doing these days? The zendokai off shoots dont do kata till brown/black belt from what Im told, but I dont know which kata they do.

 

[K-man]

Sorry to derail the thread, but which kata are zendokai doing these days? The zendokai off shoots dont do kata till brown/black belt from what Im told, but I dont know which kata they do.

Goju kata Seiyunchin plus Sanchin and Tensho and a version of Naihanchi up to black. Saifa, Sanseru, Shisochin, Siesan and Seipei are taught through the dan grades. They are all performed with a ZDK flavour and closer to the Japanese style than Okinawan. I'm not sure if every club does all the other kata but my friends who are higher level are performing the other Goju kata as well. I don't think it is part of their syllabus though. At different levels they are also required to develop and perform their own kata. :asian: