TKD vs other martial arts

Manny

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The other night talking with one of my studentes we realize that in my country the higger dans are from TKD and we started a light debate.

For example, in my city I know 3 7th degree black belts in TKD tow of them were are my sambonims, but talking about other martial arts we have the following: a) A very good judo sensei (68 yo) who is a 3rd dan, the other are second and first degree black belts, b) A 4th and a 3rd shtokan karate senseis, c) aikido two 4th dans and two 3rd dans black belts.

It seesm to me the higger dans always are TKDoings and I feel is because in TKD we always try to rush the students in the kyu and dan lader.

For exmple in the dojang I atend the ratio of dan/poom students is very high with very few white,yellow,green and blue belt studets, almost in every class we have several black belts or pooms, in the other hand for example in other dojos I have visted in teh judo dojo the higest student is a brown belt (a 15 years old kid), in the shotokan dojo I visited there is only a forth dan (sensei) and three black belts and in the other karate dojo I know there is only the sensei (3rd dan) and maybe 5 black belts and the other students.

Any toughts?

Manny
 

andyjeffries

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My thought is that also in a lot of other arts, higher Dan grades come with services to the art rather than personal progression/improvement.

For example, in Kukki-Taekwondo you physically test (at the Kukkiwon for the last 2) to 9th Dan. In our local Shotokan Karate club the seniors openly admit that 4th Dan and above is for services to Karate (4th is for opening your own club and running it for a certain amount of time, 5th is for running a national event - competition/seminar/etc). They have TIG but no physical test.

So, maybe it's less that we rush people through the Dan ranks but that people in other arts have less interest in higher dan ranks as they are given when you do good things for the art rather than "earned".

http://kenmeikarate.org/gradings.html - "following 6th dan grades are awarded by committee and reflect services to the art instead of a physical examination"

Just my thoughts...
 

Dirty Dog

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I think there are two reasons for this.

Andy has covered the first. KKW TKD has a clearly defined path to high Dan levels.

The other factor is simply that TKD is so widely practiced. The more people in your area who practice a given art, the more likely you are to have high Dan ranks amoung them.
 

RobinTKD

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Judo is hard to progress through the dan ranks. You have to collect 100 points for every dan rank, to get those points you have to fight people of your own rank at official BB gradings (these can be organised by yourself with the BJA/IJF's assistance). You must win to get points, if you score a yuko and win, that's 5 points towards your next BB, wazari is 7 points, Ippon 10. So if you do win every fight with an Ippon, then you still need to fight 10 people. Most instructors 'retire' their fighting career before 2nd or third dan. My instructor is a 3rd dan, the reason he won't go for his fourth is because there's such a lack of 3rd dans in the country that it would be a logistical nightmare to get them in one place.
 
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Manny

Manny

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I allso think that in other martial arts like the japeneses ones the student or sensei must do more merits to obtain a high rank grade, so this is dificult to do, in some cases I feel in TKD is easier to get high ranks such 4th,5th,6th and so on black belts.

For example the juod sensei I wrote before in s 3rd degree black belt, is a very good one who has devoted his life to the teaching of judo, his technique is old school however he is tired and sick at this point.

One shotokan sensi friend of mine has alomost all his life devoted to karate and he is 4th dan (50 years old) and think that if he was a tkdoin the minimun dan he would have will be 6th dan.

Manny
 
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Manny

Manny

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So.... we acn conclude. TKD has more high ramking masters than other martial art because:

a) It's the more practiced MA around the worl with zillions of practicones in almost every country, so the ratio of BB is greater than any other MA.

b) Other traditional martial arts like judo for example is not easy to go above 4th or 5th dan BB because it's based on achievements over time instead of tests or promotions.

Something else????

Manny
 

ralphmcpherson

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I was surprised to find out fairly recently that in kukkiwon tkd you wait the same number of years as the dan you are grading from eg. 2nd to 3rd dan is 2years. This means that if you got your black belt in 2 years, you could be a 2nd dan after only 3 years of training (if my maths is correct). At both the tkd and karate schools Ive trained at you wait the number of years as the dan you are going for eg. in both schools it was about 4 years to black belt plus another 2 years to get to 2nd dan, totaling 6 years. The further you progress the further this sum blows out. So my instructor got his 7th dan after 31 years training, under the kukkiwon system he could have done it in 23 years (again, if my maths is correct). Thats a pretty big difference. Im not having a go at kukkiwon, the way they do things doesnt affect me , but it does point out how you can get high ranking guys everywhere in some forms of tkd.
 

sopraisso

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Despite seeming a pretty simple subject, this topic gave me some interesting knowledge about rank progressions in taekwondo and martial arts. Thank you everyone for contributing.
 
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