Martial arts and Christianity?

[wayne]

Would you say that Marial arts are AGAINST christianity? My dance instructor used to be a dedicated marital artist but then he left it all for Christianity.

He said that "martial arts has a spirit attached to it, and that spirit is not Christian". He also said that "i left martial arts because i cant serve 2 masters (2 faiths)

What is your opinion on this??? Do you agree or dissagree with these statements

wayne

p.s i love BOTH

 

[Cthulhu]

Since I can't say anything nice about people like that, I'll simply say that I disagree.

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

I have to go with that. I disagree too. I'm NOT a christian by the way. I guess I just damned myself eh?

 

[arnisador]

I've heard it both ways. Robert Bussey left ninjutsu due to his religious beliefs (he claims), yet one often sees some variation on "Karate for Christ". I personally don't see the conflict in most cases--for some arts, possibly.

I will say that the martial arts has had more impact on my philosophy of daily life than any other activity, interest, or experience(s) I've had. For one thing, every time I refrain from smacking some imbecile who richly deserves it it is because of my martial arts training and the confidence I have derived from it. But it has affected my views much more broadly. A kung fu instructor who continually emphasized the importance of seeing the good and the bad in every person--a yin/yang idea--comes to mind. I apply that lesson often--especially when I am angry with or annoyed by someone.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by wayne
Would you say that Marial arts are AGAINST christianity? My dance instructor used to be a dedicated marital artist but then he left it all for Christianity.

He said that "martial arts has a spirit attached to it, and that spirit is not Christian". He also said that "i left martial arts because i cant serve 2 masters (2 faiths)

Ok....I'm going to quantify this first: I'm not a Christian. I have read their bible, and have had several very long and interesting discussions with several members of the "born again" flavor.

In my experience, those that proclaim so loudly that something is "against christianity", do no understand christianity itself. These "pious" individuals, "sacrifice" for god the things they loved...and would love to make you as miserable as they are by "saving" you.

Given the vast number of martial arts out there, and the fact that many of them come from practical sefl defence ideals, I'm 100% positive that he could find one that would allow him to do both.

Does martial arts have a spirit attached to it? yes an no. It depends on the art.

Is that spirit Christian? again, it depends. If you mean the "Turn the other cheek" part, which has been misunderstood to imply you can not defend or protect yourself, then, if you misunderstand this, then yes, its against -your- version of xianism.

A deep understanding of martial techniques can allow you the means to get yourself or your family out of sticky situations, and perhaps with little or no harm.

And to me, that follows a deeper law "Harm None."

Peace. (and a merry christmas to all my christian friends)

:asian:

 

[Mao]

I have been asked how I reconcile the two several times. It's not that tough. For the record, I am a Christian. I attend church regularly. I believe in the bible. I also believe that I have been given certain gifts, two of which are family and friends. I believe that I have the responsibility to love, nurture and protect these gifts in honor of He who gave them to me. Martial arts is one way that I can do this. I do this to the best of my ability. One more thing. Being a Christian does not make us perfect. There are those who think we should be more than human. I better watch out or I'll end up on a :soapbox: and I don't want to.

 

[Shotochem]

Greetings to all, I dont get it ? I cant see why ones religious beliefs would contrast with MAs. If one has a pacifistic belief would karate not fit in? The spirit we develop is not a religious one, just whats inside us I equate it to guts, heart, or that never quit second wind that we all get.

Ill leave the zen to the zen-masters,
Lou,

 

[Mao]

I have had people come to me saying that they would like to learn, but do not want any of the "eastern religion". My response has been that m.a.'s is not a religious thing to me. I have only known maybe 1 person in nearly 30 years of training that considers it such. I have the honor, blessing of being able to at least have a better shot at protecting those near and dear to me through this tool. Those near and dear to me, I cherish. They are the most important thing in this life to me. I feel a certain sense of responsiblilty to, as I said, love, nurture, and protect them. And crush the spines of those that would hurt them! :armed: :samurai: I think that the way we live our lives speaks louder about our spiritual selves than the fact that we practice martial arts. Consider this; We can be likened to full cups. When we get bumped people see what spills out.
Wow, that was deep.....and it hurt.

Easy Renegade, I'm not talkin' sex.

 

[DWright]

I agree that our actions tell more about us then our church going habits. However, MA and Christianity do occassionaly come together. A local church recently held a full day workshop on
MA's and todays religion. The guests were martial artists from various styles, and the bottom line was that the two can be part of our lifestyle. Lightning won't strike just because you practice a martial art.

 

[Samurai]

OK-- I am a Christian and a PASTOR (Super Christan)

Let me start by saying that I practice my martial arts in the church and I have been for about 10 years. Only one time did I have anyone question me on this practice. We had a "talk"

Several times I have used martial arts principles or concepts in the pulpit preaching. Just last week I was talking about the Christmas story (Jesus born in a manger,etc.). I pointed to a Nativity scene and talked about the PEACE ON EARTH and SILENT NIGHT and JOY TO THE WORLD that his perfect sacrifice (Jesus) brings. I then asked the people to look behind that PEACE and see the battle raging in the heavenly realms. Hell was attacking Jesus that day and for the rest of his earthly life. If you do not believe this, remember that Herod killed all the babies under 2 years old in a effort to kill Jesus....after that Jesus was tempted in the desert...then the cross. I talked about "The Law opposing opposites" (Yin and Yang). On one hand PEACE ON EARTH on the other hand WAR IN THE HEAVENS.
:soapbox:

For a good link that explains a Christian point of view, check out this article written by Bob Orlando (Kuntao, Silat)

http://www.orlandokuntao.com/christian_concerns.html

Thanks
Jeremy Bays

 

[Despairbear]

Greetings,

Each person must make their own decsicion, and right or wrong they must live by it. Religion, martial arts, or what to have for dinner the same is true.





Despair Bear

 

[GouRonin]

...dinner...

Yum!

:cheers:

 

[Cthulhu]

I have heard of kids who couldn't take a martial arts class because their parents claimed the meditation done in the classes was against their religious beliefs. How in hell can simple meditation be against any religious beliefs. I do not recall seeing a 'Thou shalt not meditate' last time I looked.

Some say the bowing done in many Asian arts is against their beliefs. They claim it's a sign of worship to the instructor, or whatever. Horse sh!t. It's simply showing respect to the person who has chosen to share their art with you. I never worshipped my instructor; I merely showed him the respect he was due. Using this logic, it would be against many people's religion to join the military, as saluting an officer could be construed as an act of worship. Humbug!

The only style I know of that tried to force any belief system on its practitioners was Chung Moo Do. For those of you that remember that fiasco, I don't think I need to say more.

Cthulhu
just got back from work and I'm winding down.

 

[Shotochem]

Greetings all,
I personally train with many people who
are orthodox jews. They will not bow to
the dead guys during seiza. They will nod to sensei and the rest of us while kneeled. When we are standing and practicing our drills they will bow to us and sensei as we do to them. They told me that bowing to each other on an equal basis shows respect, while kneeling and bowing in their personal belief would be considered against their
belief. It generally depends on the person and the way they feel. They also tend to not spar with the women in our dojo because they consider this disrespectful for a man to strike at a women. (I just think our women are to dangerous. )
Lou

 

[Jay Bell]

Hi Lou,

I'm good friends with an Orthodox Jew that studies Goju ryu. They (of course) are very strict in their beliefs. Bowing, often even touching a woman is forbidden. I think it's great though that he is still training.

It would be very easy for him to say, "It's too much hassle and conflict"...instead he keeps going.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I think the key is to find a way to follow your beliefs, while studying. Myself, I follow a pacifistic system, yet study various martial arts. 1 could say that is a contradiction....and I would agree. Yet, there are many ways to defend oneself and family without going lethal. Akido and Tai Chi come to mind.

Its possible...just takes some thought.

 

[IFAJKD]

First I have to say ....WOW ! I have been away from this site too long. This is great that we can discuss such things. I have to say that I am a Christian and it works for me. Martial Arts for me is both seperate and connected. I believe that first on a practical level, martial arts is a tool that was used by individuals who were first monks and in using this tool, many have associated a connection between the two. Second when you train in something you love so much it becomes a part of you and nothing becomes seperate and disconnected. In doing so it works with eachother not in conflict. I don't see martial arts as serving a master. or respect for an Instructor as serving a master. There is a difference.
This rigid belief of either/or is plain unhealthy and given that, not too "christian like" as I see it. Nor is it the sign of a mature martial artist. Be like water.
walk on

 

[wayne]

I personally believe that martial arts can be anything YOU want them to be.

Some people see it as a hobbie, passtime, relaxation, a life style, maybe a religious beliefe system in some cases, or even a sport (which i personally disagree with - just my view)

I think its up to you, you make it what you want it to be. It will become anything you want it to become

wayne

p.s thanks for the replies everyone :asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

I once moved to Florida to study with someone I had known for some time. It took me 3 days to get my stuff together and get there. When I arrived th told me he was closeing his school because he could no longer teach how to maim and kill.While I was in route to his place he had got religion. Now I do not say that as a slam or in any disrespect. He had a 'religious experence"that changed the way he viewed the world .His new found world was in conflict with his old. That was 20+ years ago and he is still true to whatever he found back then.
Personaly I belive that unless you are teaching in a church, for the church, you should keep religion out of the Martial art schools. disscusion on the nature of man, how to be a better person, meditation, the opening of awarness ,etc. are acceptible.
I think long term exposure to the arts and the knowledge of what can be accomplished through the arts may open a person to examin within themsleves, and isnt that what religion is anyway?
Just my 222cents woth.
Shadow

 

[disciple]

Just to add my opinion...I have seen schools where the salute is accompanied with a saying from a certain religion. But from my experience this saying is not really religious anymore, but more like a greeting to show your respect to the person with that religion (such as saying merry christmas to everybody although you are not christian). And the students are not forced to follow the religion or even taught the religion.

Also, I dont know about martial arts from other countries, but I believe in ancient China, one of the ways to spread religion is through martial arts, such as shaolin, wutang, etc.


salute

:asian: