Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
So what does everyone think of pledges that exhalt a diety such as Jesus or Buddha? What does everyone think of bowing to a picture of the style's founder? Both of these are required in many schools. I am uncomfortable with either.
I have never heard of a school with a pledge that exhalts a specific diety. The closest thing to a pledge that I have seen is "The pledge of alliegence" was said at my old TKD school after every class. We do have the phrase "One Nation under God" in our pledge of alliegence, but "God" isn't really as specific as "Jesus" or "Buddha," and could be embraced by any/all religions. I do remember that for some reason "The Pledge" conflicted with the beliefs of one of the students. I don't remember what the conflict was exactly; I was very young at the time. The student was A. smart enough to sit in through an entire class before joining the club, so he found the "conflict" before joining, and B. he asked the head instructor in private if he could somehow avoid saying the pledge in class. The head instructor just advised him to just stand in the TKD "attention" position, but that he didn't have to put his hand on his heart and say the pledge if he didn't want to. So, he just stood at attention silently during the pledge.
At the same TKD school some of the most senior members were very christian, more-so on the fundamentalist side. Our head instructor had earned the title "master" so he had been using it. They objected because they believed that they only had "1 master" which is God. So, he said "fine, just call me Mr." This caught on and soon everyone was calling him Mr. instead of master. He didn't mind at all, and now even today, on his business cards he uses "Mr." instead of "Master."
Now, I know some highly structured and traditional styles do a considerable amount of bowing to the head instructor, and to pictures of the founder. When I used to do Aikido, we had a very ritualistic method of bowing in before and after class which included bowing to the picture of the founder, the sensei, and a kneeling meditation. I could see this conflicting with religious beliefs.
My opinions as to the best solution: I feel that the best solution, especially for you
Old Fat Kempoka, is if you run into a school that does something that might conflict with your beliefs, just ask the head instructor in private if you can elect to not participate during that portion of the class. I think that a good instructor with an open mind will respect your beliefs and allow you to stand quietly, or step off the floor during the portion that conflicts with your beliefs. If the head instructor won't let you do this, then perhaps that is not the right school for you.
I do, however, believe that some things should be kept up if that is the tradition of that "culture" or "art." I feel that people can often be way too uptight, and there has been too much of a drive in the last 10 yrs or so to secularize EVERYTHING. I feel that this is unfair. I remember when saying the pledge in school was hotly debated because of the "under God" part. I remember when "holiday policies" became in full effect in school districts where Kids could get sent home for wearing a Santa Claus shirt, or saying "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hannaka" to their fellow students; they were specifically instructed to say "happy holidays" just in case some bystander who wasn't of whatever religion was mentioned might get offended. Yeah...like if I say Jesus or Buddha or Yahway someones ears might bleed.
I think that this is crap. "The Pledge" is part of our identity as a country. Their religion can be part of a persons identity also. I agree that intolerence is a problem, and some things are inappropriate. I think that if I was a teacher in a school, and I splattered Bible verses and Jesus quotes all over the walls in my classroom, this might be inappropriate. I am an authority figure who now might be ramming my beliefs down kids throats. However, a teacher or another student should be able to keep their identity.
I believe that intolerance is a problem, but the solution is not to be intolerant of EVERY religion. I think that the drive to make everything so politically correct, and to secularize everything does exactly that.
Now, to apply the example to a martial arts school, I think they should be able to keep the traditions of their art. In Modern Arnis we are fairly untraditional, but we do have a specific "salutation." In Bando, or salutations go a bit deeper, including a meditation or "moment of silence". Some schools traditionally begin classes with bowing, quick meditation, etc. Some schools traditionally call their teachers "masters." I don't think that this is wrong. I think that heritage, tradition, and culture should be upheld even in martial arts. I do feel though, that the instructors should be "tolerant" of other beliefs, and that they should understand if someone doesn't want to partake in certain aspects of the tradition. And, I think that the person who has conflicting beliefs should also be "tolerant" of the traditions that are being upheld in that school, and that they should be able to politely ask to not participate in those traditions.
These our my opinions...
:soapbox: Thank You...thank you very much... (as I decend from my soap box.
)
PAUL
P.S. I am a Catholic Christian. I believe in the Catholic interpretation of "diety", however I love the study of religion/philosophy of cultures outside of my own. I particularly like the indiginious way of thought. I don't feel that it conflicts with my beliefs to bow in class, or call someone by the title master. To me, it's the intent behind the actions/words, not just the actions/words. I know, as does everyone else, that if I bow to a picture I am not intending to dietize that person in the picture. I am just showing respect. This is just how I handle it.
However, I can understand and respect if someone else doesn't feel the same as I do, and wouldn't feel comfortable with certain actions/words. :asian:
