MA and the evolution of it

[terryl965]

What has been the biggest evolution for MA over the last twenty years and why.

Was it MMA, was it new found lost secrets, or was it the community that surround it.

 

[exile]

What has been the biggest evolution for MA over the last twenty years and why.

Was it MMA, was it new found lost secrets, or was it the community that surround it.

Very good question, Terry... but everyone's going to have a different answer. Here's my take: the most imortant development in MA is the intense study of the patterns and forms in the Chinese, Okinawan, Korean and Japanese striking arts and the redisovery of the full range of fighting techniques they contain, including many not usually associated with striking-based combat systems. The result of this new work---and there's a lot of it out there!---is that the broad technical base of arts such as TKD and Karate is begining to be recovered, and the overspecialized competition-based view of the martial toolkit is undergoing a sea-change among those who've been following the work of people like Abernethy, Anslow and others in that movement. The result isn't just theoretical---I think it's also had an impact on training philosophy, with ring-contest `sparring' being supplemented, at the very least, by reality-based training approaches. It's still early days, and people are still working out how best to do this---I think Abernethy has made a very good start---but I see the trend continuing and expanding, though it probably won't completely eliminate the `sport'-oriented approach to MA training... but there will be way more options for those who want hard SD at the core of their MA training. Just my $.02....

 

[Kwan Jang]

I think we have seen a lot of growth from a lot of different fronts. In the area that Exile mentions, I think it should be noted the contribution of George Dillman and his group. Even though some of his stuff may be way out there and contraversial (to put it mildly), some of their material is very good and they were the first in the main stream to get the ball rolling.

Another area is adrenal stress training. This is an area that most MA programs have neglected and the RBSD programs have brought to light. It also explains the origins of many of the traditions like kiai/kiyap and their advantages in modern training, as well as why the guys on the battlefield developed it in the first place.

Then there is the significant contribution in many areas of NHB/MMA. IMO, prior to the widespread (there were people doing this prior to UFC 1) popularity of NHB, combative martial arts did not translate well into sport. There were too many limitations to allow "live" training in many situations. Plus, while many people did cross train between stand up and ground fighting, striking and grappling, most didn't integrate the two. They trained them seperately for the most part.

In my school, we'd spar in our gear, then de-gear, pull out the mats and grapple. We even went so far as creating "A" days and "B" days. On an "A" day, students knew they didn't need to bring all their sparring gear and that is when we were going to work self defense, grappling and forms. On a "B" day, they come in their gear and that they were going to spar (box, kickbox, point, or Olympic style, depending on their level) right after warm ups. It saved class time on getting on and off gear, plus they weren't grappling after being drenched from the sparring (a factor my wife pointed out to me).

The popularity of NHB also illustrated for the world to see how important being a well rounded fighter was and the holes that many people had in not only their fight game, but towards realistic self defense. It showed a lot of people the importance of pressure testing and "live" training, though IMO too many in the MMA and RBSD camps neglect the value of some static drills for building a base and as a transition to live training. Sometimes 0-60 in 2.4 seconds is NOT the best way for students to learn. Even the gifted and athletic ones will not get all they can out of it this way. (OK, I'll get off my soapbox now).

Finally, the MMA/NHB phenomena has also clearly shown the importance of physical conditioning and superior positioning in a fight. Those involved in wrestling and the FMA's have always put a high priority on gaining superior positioning, while to many others, this was not a major concern. Also, nowdays, it's really hard for the obese instructor to tell his students that all they need if a bigger and stronger grappler takes hem down is a finger jab or fish hook (or at least have them believe him).

 

[The Kidd]

Since compared to some of ya'll I am a neophyte in regards to experience I see the biggest change is the willingness to bring parts of other styles into the Dojo to make a more well rounded MA. Some purists would say this is bad and waters down some Arts but done well makes more situations real and better prepares others.

 

[exile]

In the area that Exile mentions, I think it should be noted the contribution of George Dillman and his group. Even though some of his stuff may be way out there and contraversial (to put it mildly), some of their material is very good and they were the first in the main stream to get the ball rolling.

I've read a lot about Dillman, but not in that context, KwJ---is there some writing of his out there on form application that I could get my hands on? Mostly (as you might expect), the stuff I've seen has been the recent, rather weird stuff...

Another area is adrenal stress training. This is an area that most MA programs have neglected and the RBSD programs have brought to light. It also explains the origins of many of the traditions like kiai/kiyap and their advantages in modern training, as well as why the guys on the battlefield developed it in the first place.

Good point---I think that, in the past, danger was a much more familiar feature of many people's lives, and people had to cope with potentially lethal threats (relatively) frequently. Dedicated training to handle the adrenaline surge of a dangerous situation wasn't as crucial as it is to us, who mostly lead very insulated, well-protected lives for the most part---and who, facing situations of genuinely high risk, with terrible outcomes possible, get hit with the equivalent of a tsunami, when the adrenal shock hits. Soldiers of course are trained specifically to respond cooly in situations of mortal danger (though freezing in combat isn't exactly unknown, even for them). The new emphasis on training realistically for genuinely threatening situations is a good thing---if it's done right, it can be the step that lets you actually use what you know. The flip side is, it's pretty unpleasant, which is probably one main reason why it's been neglected. But then, actual combat is even less pleasant... it's another case of short term pain, long term gain...

 

[Robert Lee]

I would say the increased interest in The contact area Of M/A training. This is per say a testing ground. Then the discovery of areas of combat. Stand up clinch and ground. We had gotten comfortable in a training pattern And then found parts were being neglected. And considering M/A training is gearing to a higher degree of live training People want effective training. In the past people settled on point spars. And pretty moves Not testing the water Now people want to test there training more to build a performance based understanding. So perhaps its not NEW. but being trained agin once more to be effectively applied by more who train.

 

[Kwan Jang]

Exile,
Dillamn's books KYUSHO JITSU and TUITE JITSU are both excellent reads on the subject. They were before he got on to other tracts, his material on this subject is still top notch (when he stays on topic). I would also highly recommend any seminars and material from Will Higgenbotham. Will is an 8th dan under Dillman and IMO a better teacher. He doesn't knock the other stuff his instructor does, but his material and seminars tend to focus MUCH more with forms applications. Best I've seen on the subject by far.

 

[exile]

Exile,
Dillamn's books KYUSHO JITSU and TUITE JITSU are both excellent reads on the subject. They were before he got on to other tracts, his material on this subject is still top notch (when he stays on topic). I would also highly recommend any seminars and material from Will Higgenbotham. Will is an 8th dan under Dillman and IMO a better teacher. He doesn't knock the other stuff his instructor does, but his material and seminars tend to focus MUCH more with forms applications. Best I've seen on the subject by far.

Brilliant, KwJ---thanks very much for this info. I'll check out those Dillman books and see if WH has anything out there I can pick up. I've heard so many people say that Dillman was really quite good before he went on this strange Dim Mak kind of kick... it's always too bad when someone who's done really good work winds up having it obscured and forgotten because of some eccentricity they get into later on in their lives. Much appreciated!