Action or Motivation - which comes first???

[L Canyon]

I was reading a book entitled "Feeling Good" by D. Burns, M.D., which deals with recognizing and replacing negativity with a positive outlook.

One section asks which comes first - motivation or action.

I figured it has to be motivation. But the author states that no - you have to "prime the pump" so to speak, and force yourself into action, which then creates a motivating force. In other words, you can't wait passively for inspiration to strike - you have to be the lightening bolt and strike yourself.

he has a chart:

1 - action;
2 - motivation;
3 - more action [back to #2, creating a "loop"]

Anyway, I thought this could apply to creative people, including martial artists of course.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

agreed.

when i'm feeling unmotivated, i check my list of simple, mindless motion tasks. by the time i've finished one or two, i'm in the groove.

action begets motivation, and is the quickest, easiest way to break a depressive cycle or just slack day.

 

[Jade Tigress]

It's almost like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Neither one can exist without the other. While you could say action begets motivation, you have to have some sort of motivation to make the first action in the first place. Perhaps action begets increased motivation? Interesting topic.

 

[oddball]

(Might be a little off topic, but interesting to consider).

Awhile ago, I read a dilbert cartoon (yeah yeah, probably not the best source for information) and the joke was (as dogbert used this to fry ratbert's brain) that humans act without thinking - and that any thoughts that we have after the action is in fact the attempt to rationalize our existence. Effectively that we are completely random and uncontrollable and our existence makes sense only if we take controlvof our own minds and make sense of things.

So, as I'm familiar with action, all actions are undertaken in the attempt to lessen anxiety (according to freud, pre "beyond the pleasure principle"). The action results from motivation, conscious or unconcious, in the attempt to make life easier or a series of actions in the attempt to lower anxiety.

Something my history teacher mentioned was that humans have an easy time starting - it's finishing that becomes the problem. I took this to mean that humans can easily begin something, but stopping what they were doing before would require motivation, while the new action wouldn't (i.e. a new routine is always harder than one that has been ingrained for years and years - "conditioning" and muscle memory come to mind.

So, summation ramble - action comes first in old routines, whereas motivation comes first to stop old routines/begin new ones? Routines on the other hand are usually pleasant/normal/secure, which is why they are continued, whereas new routines are more stressful and less secure.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Then lessening anxiety would still be the motivation.

 

[meta]

when i'm feeling unmotivated, i check my list of simple, mindless motion tasks. by the time i've finished one or two, i'm in the groove.

action begets motivation, and is the quickest, easiest way to break a depressive cycle or just slack day.

I agree with that. Some nights, when I'm feeling down, I don't feel like training, but once I get to the dojo, my depression fades away and I'm actually glad to be there.

Also, you can be motivated to achieve a bigger goal (e.g. passing a belt test), but you may not be so motivated to perform smaller tasks (doing workouts before breakfast) that would help you reach that goal. This is especially difficult if the goal is a long-term one and you don't see any immediate rewards from accomplishing these small tasks. In these cases I find that forcing yourself to act works much better than waiting for motivation to occur spontaneously.

 

[Jade Tigress]

So, as I'm familiar with action, all actions are undertaken in the attempt to lessen anxiety (according to freud, pre "beyond the pleasure principle"). The action results from motivation, conscious or unconcious, in the attempt to make life easier or a series of actions in the attempt to lower anxiety.

I don't know. It's a real chore to exercise everyday. I don't look forward to it. I don't feel better once I get started (I just want to be done) but when I am done, I'm glad I did it. What makes me exercise everyday even though I don't want to? It's the motivation to stay in shape.

 

[morph4me]

It's almost like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Neither one can exist without the other. While you could say action begets motivation, you have to have some sort of motivation to make the first action in the first place. Perhaps action begets increased motivation? Interesting topic.

Makes perfect sense to me, you have to be motivated to take an action that will motivate you further. Without the initial motivation, why take action?

 

[Cirdan]

Don`t think, just do!

 

[IcemanSK]

John Wesley, the founder of the Methodis Church, once said, "Preach faith until you have it." I think that translates well for MA, too. For a lot of us, setting MA goals are difficult because we can't picture ourselves doing it. But, if we set a goal & work toward it, it can be achieved.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Don`t think, just do!

What's my motivation?:uhyeah:

 

[oddball]

yeah, you might not be hyped to do chores... but if all actions are based on the idea of relieving or preventing future possibilities of anxiety, then that becomes a subconcious motivator. So, taking out the trash may not be fun, but it's better than the alternative of having lots and lots of trash piling up in your home and getting sick/dying :vu:

 

[Jade Tigress]

yeah, you might not be hyped to do chores... but if all actions are based on the idea of relieving or preventing future possibilities of anxiety, then that becomes a subconcious motivator. So, taking out the trash may not be fun, but it's better than the alternative of having lots and lots of trash piling up in your home and getting sick/dying :vu:

Exactly. There's a motivation behind the action. Not an action behind the motivation.

 

[L Canyon]

It's almost like which came first, the chicken or the egg. Neither one can exist without the other. While you could say action begets motivation, you have to have some sort of motivation to make the first action in the first place. Perhaps action begets increased motivation? Interesting topic.

Yes, I agree with you. Whatever idea gets you doing something has to equal motivation.

I guess the book's author just wants us to force action from within, instead of waiting for inspiration, or an invitation from another party.

 

[Cirdan]

What's my motivation?:uhyeah:

You think too much. :disgust:

 

[Last Fearner]

I was reading a book entitled "Feeling Good" by D. Burns, M.D., ...
One section asks which comes first - motivation or action.

I figured it has to be motivation. But the author states that no - you have to "prime the pump" so to speak, and force yourself into action, which then creates a motivating force. In other words, you can't wait passively for inspiration to strike - you have to be the lightening bolt and strike yourself.

In my opinion, the above quote of D. Burns just proves that even people with "M.D." after their name who author books, don't always know what they are talking about.

First of all, define the word "motivation." (the following definitions come from The American Heritage Dictionary, 2000)

"motivation n. 1a. The act or process of motivating. b. the state of being motivated. 2. Something that motivates; an inducement or incentive."

What then, does it meat to "motivate?"

"motivate tr.v. To provide with an incentive; move to action; impel."

Further explore the root word "motive."

"motive n. 1. An emotion, desire, physiological need, or similar impulse that acts as an incitement to action. adj. 1. Causing or able to cause motion; motive power. 2. Impelling to action; motive pleas. 3. Of or constituting an incitement to action. tr.v. To motivate. [Middle English motif, motive, from Latin motus, past participle of movere; to move."

Therefore, the term "motivation," by definition, means to impel into action. Impel means "To urge to action through moral pressure; drive."

Isaac Newton's theory of reactions basically states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. In the case of an inanimate object, action and reaction occur simultaneously in opposite directions, with equal force, thus neither one is distinguishable from the other. Which one was the action, and which was the reaction? No way to tell since they are the same.

On the other hand, with people, there is intent, desire, "motivation." Psychologically speaking, we tend to act to seek pleasure, and avoid pain (not taking into consideration the psychologically "abnormal" behavior where pain is pleasurable, and vice-versa). Even if we are not consciously aware of why we are doing what we are doing, it still requires a mental decision to command the muscles to move. Our mental process could be broken down into stages of a thought, a preference, a desire. Both preferences and desires come in varying degrees from mild inclination to strong urges. The strongest of urges might be habitual and addictive behavior. We may be compelled into action on the slightest preference for change, or not until a strong desire or urge takes hold.

In any event, what D. Burns has failed to recognize is that there is active thoughts occurring in the brain constantly, some of which turn to a preference or desire and impel us to move. As Jade Tigress correctly put it, "you have to have some sort of motivation to make the first action in the first place. Perhaps action begets increased motivation?" Very well stated Jade!

he has a chart:

1 - action;
2 - motivation;
3 - more action [back to #2, creating a "loop"]

The above chart is missing that which is not visible, and often undetected by the conscious mind. There is "motivation" in the form of a preference to change the present condition; a desire to act prior to the initial action. Even if a person does not "feel extremely motivated," a slight amount of motivation needs to be present in the brain to decide to move in the first place. Think of Isaac Newton's theory of inertia - a body at rest tends to stay at rest, and a body in motion tends to stay in motion.

The chart should read:

1 - initial motivation (conscious or subconscious)
2 - initial action
3 - increased or decreased motivation
4 - decision to continue action, increase action, decrease action
(decreased action may be slight or to completely cease action.)
[back to #1 or #3, depending on decision in #4, thereby creating a "loop"]

This is my interpretation of motivation into action.

CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[L Canyon]

Thanks, Fast Learner. After reading a number of posts here I agree that motivation has to precede any act.

I found the author's bio, listed below. I'd like him to explain his ideas in more depth -

David D. Burns, M.D., is an American best selling author and an Adjunct Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at the Stanford University School of Medicine. He has also served as Visiting Scholar at the Harvard Medical School and Acting Chief of Psychiatry at the Presbyterian / University of Pennsylvania Medical Center in Philadelphia.
Burns received his B.A. from Amherst College in 1964 and his M.D. from the Stanford University School of Medicine in 1970. He completed his residency training in psychiatry in 1974 at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine was certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology in 1976.
Burns is the author of numerous research studies, book chapters and books. He also gives lectures and conducts more than 20 two-day psychotherapy training workshops for mental health professionals throughout the United States and Canada each year.
His most famous book, Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy has sold over four million copies in the United States, and has also been published in Argentina, Australia, Austria, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Iran, Israel, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Yugoslavia and many other countries as well as in Quebec, Canada. It was named as one of the top ten behavioral science books of 1980 by the journal, Behavioral Medicine and was named by The Authoritative Guide to Self - Help Books (New York: Guilford Press, 1994) as the book most frequently recommended for depressed patients by mental health professionals in the United States. It was also rated as the top self-help book for depressed individuals. This rating was based on a national survey of more than 500 mental health professionals’ evaluations of 1,000 self-help books. His Feeling Good Handbook was rated #2 in the survey.
Burns is on the voluntary faculty of the Stanford University School of Medicine where he is actively involved in research and training. He also serves as a statistical consultant for Stanford's new Center for Interdisciplinary Brain Sciences Research.

 

[Last Fearner]

I found the author's bio, listed below....

Wow! Quite an impressive Bio. He sounds like a very intelligent, educated, and accomplished individual. I think it would be interesting to meet him, and get a chance to discuss various philosophies. Too bad he missed the mark on this issue, but like a said - - even famous authors with M.D. after their name don't know "everything." He formed an opinion about action coming before motivation, and I happen to believe he is wrong. I'm sure he is very knowledgeable in his field, though.

Thanks for posting the bio - very interesting!

Last Fearner