Evolution of the arts....what is next??

[TheOriginalName]

I was reading some pages on the net the other day regarding the development of Karate. I unfortunately lost the web page but i did find one that was extremely interesting as it discussed the development of the art as evolution....only the forms that "worked" survived type of thing.

Anyway, this got me to thiking....what is the next evolutionary step for martial arts as a whole?

Are we seeing the next step in mixed martial arts.....where the best techniques are combined to create an effective and individual fighting style?

My MA background is limited...less than a year of training....so i thought i would "throw" this one open to some people with a bit more experience.

Cheer

 

[Steel Tiger]

I have thought about this many times and come to a variety of conclusions. There is one thing that always features prominently in my thinking however.

When talking about evolution in terms of social constructs like martial arts there is a big it and evolution in the natural world. In the natural world there are factors that influence evolution and generally, within a given set of factors, the rule of the survival of the fittest works. This is not necessarily the case with social evolution.

Lets look at martial arts in terms of social evolution. What started life as an effective way of remembering good ways to hurt someone or protect oneself now has a large component of performance and competition. Is that better or worse? Most people here would probably say they cannot really tell but have their suspicions. I happen to think it is a detrimental development as competition tends to eliminate anything that is extraneous to winning the competition. To draw an analogy, a shotputter does not do the same training as a highjumper, it would not assist him in winning the shotput. I think martial artists should be more like decathletes.

As to the future of martial arts, I do think that the development of competition will continue to wittle away at the foundations of the arts. However, there is another movement that is trying to recover and preserve the knowledge that is being lost in this neverending pandering to the cultural superego's need for measurable victory.

I can see a split coming between those of us who study the combative aspects of the arts and those who are solely participant to win trophies in competitions. There are some who are going to be caught in the middle, especially those in TKD and the CMAs leaning toward modern Wushu. In these arenas there are large, powerful organisations pushing the arts in a particular direction, and if the future is anything like the past they will continue to do so.

The future of the martial arts actually looks pretty good, but if we speak of it in evolutionary terms and consider it a single species (rather than what it actually is) then I can see the development of subspecies or perhaps even wholly new species based on a particular fundamental premise. Combative aspects and competition being just two examples of this.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Every person who is involve in learning a martial art skill ...like the police forces, military forces, FBI and so on...

Is looking for : Easy to learn, easy to use, easy to remember and in the shortest training time....for most situtions where hand to hand fighting maybe needed in their profession.

The "everyday person" do not want to spend years and years or decades to be proficient....

One day in the evolutions of martial arts....there will be a way to do this...and teach it to most people..

maybe "brain washing" or computor implants or ...something "radical" way of teaching the martial arts...

Like speed reading? Can speed learning martial arts....be discover?

Like stepping on a banana peel and we fall down...the next time we see a banana peel...we LEARN what will happen...and pick it up so no one esle falls too!

In Judo when you get thrown in "Tome Naga"...you learn quickly..you do not EVER want to get thrown like that again...up and over high and land on your back side.....whew! ...the learning picks up...or the mind never forgets?

Our school educations is so far behind in the ways we are teaching our kids today.....this is sad....when we have computers that can teach faster and more clearly...(home school computer programs today many are better) ..can be taught in regular classrooms...where each student moves at their own pace!

The future? ...better ways to teach, better ways to remember, and to use for self-protection.............

Aloha ( should self-defense training take decades to learn? ...NO!)

golfing yes? ...bowling NO! ...cause of the size of the balls!
Just kidding here........

 

[Xue Sheng]

CMA has evolved as well as devolved to Sanshou/Sanda and some other CMA styles have done the same but kept the name. And before anyone attacks me I train Sanda, the police/military version,as wellas Taijiquan and XIngyiquan. There was something pointed out by a Sanda person and Author Dr Mizhou Hui that points to the fundamental difference between MMA and things like Sports Sanda and things like Police Military Sanda and TMA.

The purpose of your attack is not wining points but rather disabling your opponent so that he loses all fighting potential -- Dr Mizhou Hui

This not saying one is better than the other just that the view they take of the opponent is very different. Sport wants points to win, non-sport wants finality to win. Sports may expect to see the same opponent again. Non-sport hope to never see the same opponent again.

Sanda is not the best MA nor is it the most deadly, it is however a way to learn how to hurt someone else really badly and not have to train to long to do it. This had evolved from traditional Chinese Martial arts. It has however removed all Qi training and it has removed a lot of the philosophy of CMA. This leaves you with an art that is very effective and easy to learn so if you have a teacher that is less interested in who he teaches and teaches anyone that will pay potentially he can teach some rather bad people to become rather good at hurting others. Luckily my sifu is very concerned about this and will not teach just anybody.

I also train Traditional Yang Taijiquan and have for many years (much longer than Sanda) and I have seen, in many cases, it evolve as well. But into something that I feel is much less than what it once was. It has changed from a very effective martial art that takes a long tome to learn into a health dance were many fool themselves into thinking they can actually defend themselves with it. Then it changed again into a conglomeration of arts. People that do not understand it or don't want to put in the time adding another martial art to it, such as Taiji + Sanda or Taiji + karate or Taiji + Aikido and although they may be effective at fighting and many that do this claim it is evolving it is not. It is changes into something other than Taiji, which is really not a problem per say, just as long as you don't try and sell it as Taiji. It is not more Taiji than Yiqhuan is Xingyiquan.

As for Sanda it is what it is and it is very good at what it was designed for so it has evolved from CMA into something that takes less time to learn to become dangerous but it has removed the philosophical side, which can be a dangerous thing.

As for Taiji I world like to see it return to what it is. I would like to see people take the time to learn it like it is suppose to be learned and learn to apply it like it is suppose to be applied and then they will see not only the health benefits but the martial applications as well. But this takes years so I guess I am wishing that students of Taiji would evolve to have more patients.

 

[still learning]

CMA has evolved as well as devolved to Sanshou/Sanda and some other CMA styles have done the same but kept the name. And before anyone attacks me I train Sanda, the police/military version,as wellas Taijiquan and XIngyiquan. There was something pointed out by a Sanda person and Author Dr Mizhou Hui that points to the fundamental difference between MMA and things like Sports Sanda and things like Police Military Sanda and TMA.



This not saying one is better than the other just that the view they take of the opponent is very different. Sport wants points to win, non-sport wants finality to win. Sports may expect to see the same opponent again. Non-sport hope to never see the same opponent again.

Sanda is not the best MA nor is it the most deadly, it is however a way to learn how to hurt someone else really badly and not have to train to long to do it. This had evolved from traditional Chinese Martial arts. It has however removed all Qi training and it has removed a lot of the philosophy of CMA. This leaves you with an art that is very effective and easy to learn so if you have a teacher that is less interested in who he teaches and teaches anyone that will pay potentially he can teach some rather bad people to become rather good at hurting others. Luckily my sifu is very concerned about this and will not teach just anybody.

I also train Traditional Yang Taijiquan and have for many years (much longer than Sanda) and I have seen, in many cases, it evolve as well. But into something that I feel is much less than what it once was. It has changed from a very effective martial art that takes a long tome to learn into a health dance were many fool themselves into thinking they can actually defend themselves with it. Then it changed again into a conglomeration of arts. People that do not understand it or don't want to put in the time adding another martial art to it, such as Taiji + Sanda or Taiji + karate or Taiji + Aikido and although they may be effective at fighting and many that do this claim it is evolving it is not. It is changes into something other than Taiji, which is really not a problem per say, just as long as you don't try and sell it as Taiji. It is not more Taiji than Yiqhuan is Xingyiquan.

As for Sanda it is what it is and it is very good at what it was designed for so it has evolved from CMA into something that takes less time to learn to become dangerous but it has removed the philosophical side, which can be a dangerous thing.

As for Taiji I world like to see it return to what it is. I would like to see people take the time to learn it like it is suppose to be learned and learn to apply it like it is suppose to be applied and then they will see not only the health benefits but the martial applications as well. But this takes years so I guess I am wishing that students of Taiji would evolve to have more patients.

Hello, Thank-you for sharing about "Sanda"...

Have you read the book "Seven deadly strikes" ....Sanda reminds me of this book....when you mention to end a confrontation in the shortest time...

Just that the laws protect the guilty or bad guys and we can go to jail for excess force...or be sue if we injury the other person who attack us!

Sad the way the laws works in America....the bad guys got it made...just the other night...watching world's greatest police shoot outs...

one robber of store who stole $122.00 and fired several shots at the police received only a six year sentence...he was trying to kill the police officer...? Who knows how many times this guy was arrested before...guest what he will do when he gets OUT!

Martial arts will change...a new fad will change the shape of training again...in the near future....50 years from now....the way we train will be consider ...UM? ........outdated?

than again in 50 years...laws may change and learning martial arts will not be needed so much? and we all may have some kind of device that protect us....electronic shield....buzzzzzz

Aloha ( "stay away or I will press the make you disappear forever button")

ooops...wrong person....sorrrrrryyyy? ( this device work so good...half the people in the world is GONE! ...nice huh!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hello, Thank-you for sharing about "Sanda"...

Have you read the book "Seven deadly strikes" ....Sanda reminds me of this book....when you mention to end a confrontation in the shortest time...

Just that the laws protect the guilty or bad guys and we can go to jail for excess force...or be sue if we injury the other person who attack us!

Sad the way the laws works in America....the bad guys got it made...just the other night...watching world's greatest police shoot outs...

one robber of store who stole $122.00 and fired several shots at the police received only a six year sentence...he was trying to kill the police officer...? Who knows how many times this guy was arrested before...guest what he will do when he gets OUT!

Martial arts will change...a new fad will change the shape of training again...in the near future....50 years from now....the way we train will be consider ...UM? ........outdated?

than again in 50 years...laws may change and learning martial arts will not be needed so much? and we all may have some kind of device that protect us....electronic shield....buzzzzzz

Aloha ( "stay away or I will press the make you disappear forever button")

ooops...wrong person....sorrrrrryyyy? ( this device work so good...half the people in the world is GONE! ...nice huh!

No I have not read that I shall look for it.

There is another quote by Dr Mizhou Hui it is the very first line of the very first chapter

In self-defense, it is better to use a weapon, if possible, because a weapon is superior to your hands and feet

Also in Adam Hsu's book the sword polisher’s record he discusses how weapons, particularly guns have changed martial arts considerably. But he still advocates training traditional Chinese Martial Arts in traditional ways.

But you are probably right just push the red button and all you problems disappear.... or was that the Blue button???? Oh Hell just push them both. :uhyeah:

 

[TheOriginalName]

Some interesting points have been made that i hadn't thought about in terms of MA.

Firstly the fad thing. My involvement with MA hasn't been long enough for me to see fads....or perhaps i am just riding the wave of one of them....
I'm interested in what "fads" have occured over the years and what lasting effect these have made on the world of MA?

Also, the idea of the law effecting MA is interesting.
This should have occured to me, as when training in knife defence we constantly are disarming and then throwing away the weapon as it is illegal to disarm and then use it again the original attacker (go figure....).
This would be a prime example of that, as i'm sure that in the past you would have simply have used the knife to inflict damage on the attacker.

Thanks for the thoughts so far.......had got me thinking.....would love to hear more from people.

 

[Steel Tiger]

I'm interested in what "fads" have occured over the years and what lasting effect these have made on the world of MA?

Fads in the MAs? Lets see. There was the whole "Kung Fu" fad with Bruce Lee and the TV show, the ninja fad of the '80s and '90s, the TKD fad when it bacame an Olympic sport, a very brief Kempo fad brought on by Jeff Speakman's movie "The Perfect Weapon", another kung fu fad with Jackie Chan and Jet Li (that ones still around I think). That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head.

These fads have a definite effect on the development of the MAs as they bring people with particular perspectives and desires.

 

[TheOriginalName]

I must admit as a child in the 90s i was introduced to the entire idea of martial arts through the Ninja Turtles, as were many of my friends.

And more recently my own reintroduction to MA was inspired by a Jackie Chan film that i watched....

So are these fads or are these the influence of MA on the wider community??

But as you have illuded, the wider community can influence MA back....which perhaps is more so the reason for the existance of schools where a black belt is a 6 month membership......

Again, just my thoughts.......