Looking for your opinion.

[kenpo_guy]

Hello all, this is a nice forum. I was wondering what the general opinion is on this. I have been a part of a Kenpo School from pretty much the time it opened and not only respect my instructor as a martial artist and as my instructor, but also have built a pretty good friendship with him. Over the past 6 years his school has grown and he is doing quite well for himself. But, because as the size of the school grew, the classes have become more soft than what I want. Some of the core students I worked out with, have left and now I find myself working with people who don’t want to get hit, or don’t want to listen to how the body will move to striking certain areas of the body because it does not look right when they want to show people. They want you to stand there for them like a stiff cardboard cut out, or move in ways you would not react just so it looks cool. I have about 5 other guys who I used to box with several years ago who want to train with me. In your opinion is it wrong for me to train these guys at my home? There is no “no competition” clause in my school, and I have talked to my instructor about the classes. He tells me that he had to make the classes more “public” friendly to keep his school open and make a living. People getting hit does scare Joe Public away, but we also were not making full force contact, more like 10%-20%, and light face contact. The sparring was full contact however, now you are not allowed any face contact and only light head contact. I don’t want to get in the way of him making his living and the growth of his school, but I am no longer getting what I want from my training there. The guys who want to work with me, have the same intensity and want the same out of their training that I do. I just don’t want to disrespect my instructor, or get in the way of his income.

 

[Blindside]

Try opening an additional class in your instructors school. Run it as a "full/hard contact" class and let enrollment fall where it may. Maybe it is only once a week and charge an additional fee for the class. Split that fee with your instructor or simply give it too him. It allows overflow from the main class for those who want to play at that level, and it opens up new opportunities for income. The only hitch in this would be your instructors insurance, but that will be a hitch for you too if you choose to open your own club.

Good luck, sounds like fun,

Lamont

 

[MJS]

Hello all, this is a nice forum. I was wondering what the general opinion is on this. I have been a part of a Kenpo School from pretty much the time it opened and not only respect my instructor as a martial artist and as my instructor, but also have built a pretty good friendship with him. Over the past 6 years his school has grown and he is doing quite well for himself. But, because as the size of the school grew, the classes have become more soft than what I want. Some of the core students I worked out with, have left and now I find myself working with people who don’t want to get hit, or don’t want to listen to how the body will move to striking certain areas of the body because it does not look right when they want to show people. They want you to stand there for them like a stiff cardboard cut out, or move in ways you would not react just so it looks cool. I have about 5 other guys who I used to box with several years ago who want to train with me. In your opinion is it wrong for me to train these guys at my home? There is no “no competition” clause in my school, and I have talked to my instructor about the classes. He tells me that he had to make the classes more “public” friendly to keep his school open and make a living. People getting hit does scare Joe Public away, but we also were not making full force contact, more like 10%-20%, and light face contact. The sparring was full contact however, now you are not allowed any face contact and only light head contact. I don’t want to get in the way of him making his living and the growth of his school, but I am no longer getting what I want from my training there. The guys who want to work with me, have the same intensity and want the same out of their training that I do. I just don’t want to disrespect my instructor, or get in the way of his income.

First off, welcome to the forum!

As for your question...I'll do my best to offer some advice. If you're not happy with your training, then it would be in your best interest to do something about it. By continuing to stay in a place where you're not happy, is going to be more hurtful than helpful to your training. Now, if you decide to stay at that school, nothing says that you can't train with people outside of the school. What you do on your own time is your business.

As for the way training is done at the school. Unfortunately, things change, and its not always for the better. People train in the arts for many different reasons, but IMO, it is very important for new students to fully understand what they are getting themselves into before they sign up!! It is the job of the inst. to make sure that all new students fully understand about the classes, contact, etc. before they set foot in the training hall. Watching a class is also a very good idea too. If at any time the student feels its not for them, they should speak up.

One thing that people seem to forget is that the arts are a contact activity. Therefore, if they can't/don't think they can handle it, again, they should speak up.

As for the sparring: A beginning student should not be doing any sparring until they have a very good understanding of the basics. When they start to spar, it should be done slowly, with light contact, until they get used to it, and then gradually build up from there. As far as standing in one spot...that all comes down to the aliveness aspect. Its very important to have resistance, movement, etc. in training, because if the student wants to learn SD, thats what its all about. Someone on the street is not going to be standing still, not resisting, while the student executes their move.

I understand where your inst. is coming from regarding safety and a possible law suit, but again, the arts certainly are not for everyone, and making sure they fully and completely understand what its going to be like, is key to running a successful school.

I hope that this was a help to you. If you have any other questions, please feel free to ask.

Mike

 

[TChase]

I've been in your same exact position twice. It can be a hard thing to do but you have to be honest to yourself and follow your own path in life. If you're unhappy now, things aren't going to get any better. If your current teacher is a true friend he will understand. My advice is to maintain your friendship with your current instructor and go seek out what it is you're looking for. You know exactly what it is you want, it's just a matter of finding it. I don't see anything wrong with training people at your house. I'm getting ready to start doing the same thing and my teacher supports me 100%. It took me 3 trys in 10 years to find my path in Kenpo. I sometimes get pissed at myself for wasting so many years but it taught me an important lesson. I will never again compromise my beliefs or my path in life. I hope this helps you.

 

[Zepp]

Welcome to the board kenpo_guy! :wavey:

I don't know if you were interested in teaching for money, or just for fun, but if it's not for money, then the non-competition clause doesn't apply. There shouldn't be anything at all that says you can't get together with a few people on your own (with no money involved) and train together. If the other people happen to learn a thing or two from you while they're training with you, then so what? It would be a bizzare contract that regulated that. Train safe, and I hope you work something out.

 

[Ceicei]

Try opening an additional class in your instructors school. Run it as a "full/hard contact" class and let enrollment fall where it may. Maybe it is only once a week and charge an additional fee for the class. Split that fee with your instructor or simply give it too him. It allows overflow from the main class for those who want to play at that level, and it opens up new opportunities for income. The only hitch in this would be your instructors insurance, but that will be a hitch for you too if you choose to open your own club.

Good luck, sounds like fun,

Lamont

Sounds like a viable option.

Kenpo_guy,
at the very least, talk to your instructor about this possibility of an additional small class. I am sure there are others who would like to do more hard contact work and your instructor probably knows about this. Perhaps on a different day or by an hour or two away from the general family hour so to not scare away the "gentle ones".

If your instructor doesn't feel this is a good option (liability issue?), then I agree with the others who posted here. Having a small get together with a few friends somewhere else to practice this type of reality training should be understood that injury can and will happen. Of course, you and your friends know that.

- Ceicei

 

[Simon Curran]

A few of us at the club where I train get together every once in a while to "go at it", and it seems to work out ok, as long as everybody knows what they are getting into from the word go...

 

[kenpo_guy]

Thanks for all your advice. I had pretty much made up my mind that I did want to train with these guys at my house, but wanted an outside opinion. Your comments pretty much helped me cross that line. I would be doing this just for fun and not charging money, I guess in a way it is for selfish reasons. I told the guys they wouldn't have to pay as long as they were serious about the training and I got what I want out of it also, not that I am just teaching them and getting no workout myself. I am not too worried about the sparring, like I said I used to box with these guys several years ago so they know what they are getting into. There will obviously be some adjustments because now you are kicking also.

There have been a few attempts to start a harder class, but people come for a few times and then are gone. They are all pumped about it at first, and then one by one they drop. I think for most, it seems like something cool and exciting, but then when that wears out, it's over.

I will be staying at the school also, but probably only be going to the Black Belt class. The regular classes are the ones that I lost interest in, but the Black Belt class is only 1 day a week.

Thanks again for your opinions. I look forward to talking more on these boards.

 

[MJS]

You're quite welcome! :asian: I'm glad that you were able to find the path that you want to take!

Mike

 

[47MartialMan]

I have to agree to talk it over with your instructor. Show him a roster of people feeling the same as you do.


Then take the appropriate action after.