Learning a new Karate style

[Stuarto75 16]

To show them the color of the belt they wore didn’t really mean all that much. Their knowledge, ability, demeanor and the person and martial artist they were becoming meant more than the color of a piece of cloth.

I used to love putting a white belt around my waist leading a class. And seeing some yellow belt wearing my belt. One of the things it did for them, besides it being kind of fun, was showing them the belt they had around their waist didn’t really matter.

All the students got a kick out of it. We only did it a few times a year, but the black belts would sometimes choose a young under belt they had helped and say, “Here, put mine on and I’ll wear yours.”

It was fun and fostered a feeling of camaraderie.

I like that, thank you for sharing that story Buka

 

[PhotonGuy]

To show them the color of the belt they wore didn’t really mean all that much. Their knowledge, ability, demeanor and the person and martial artist they were becoming meant more than the color of a piece of cloth.

I used to love putting a white belt around my waist leading a class. And seeing some yellow belt wearing my belt. One of the things it did for them, besides it being kind of fun, was showing them the belt they had around their waist didn’t really matter.

All the students got a kick out of it. We only did it a few times a year, but the black belts would sometimes choose a young under belt they had helped and say, “Here, put mine on and I’ll wear yours.”

It was fun and fostered a feeling of camaraderie.

Well as far as the color of the belt not mattering, that is true in the sense that the skill is not in the belt. In other words, wearing a belt of a different color is not going to affect your skill level. A white belt student who is wearing a black belt on one of those days in which you swap belts is not going to be performing at the skill level of a black belt just because he's wearing the belt. There is nothing magical about a belt, wearing a belt of a higher color is not going to magically give you more skill but that is very obvious and I think everybody already knows that. So when you swap belts if that's what you're trying to teach your students, it's not like you're teaching them anything they don't already know.

Now as far as to whether or not belt colors ever mean anything, that depends. In order for it to mean anything you do have to take into account how a student got the belt. If you don't take into account how a student got a belt then yes, the belt and its color don't mean anything. If you were to just give belts away for free, so to speak, without having any skill requirements on the part of the students to wear belts of whatever color they want then color wouldn't mean anything. If you just let students choose belts of any color they want to wear during class and you did that every day, not just on the days when you swap belts, then color doesn't mean anything (other than the color preference of the student).

If you're going to have skill requirements for belts then belt color does mean something. It means that a student wearing a belt of a particular color has met the skill requirements for that color.

 

[drop bear114 53]

To show them the color of the belt they wore didn’t really mean all that much. Their knowledge, ability, demeanor and the person and martial artist they were becoming meant more than the color of a piece of cloth.

I used to love putting a white belt around my waist leading a class. And seeing some yellow belt wearing my belt. One of the things it did for them, besides it being kind of fun, was showing them the belt they had around their waist didn’t really matter.

All the students got a kick out of it. We only did it a few times a year, but the black belts would sometimes choose a young under belt they had helped and say, “Here, put mine on and I’ll wear yours.”

It was fun and fostered a feeling of camaraderie.

That would weird me out going up. A lot more than going down.

 

[Buka29 3]

That would weird me out going up. A lot more than going down.

You never seemed like the kind of guy that would get weirder out by something silly.

 

[Buka29 3]

Well as far as the color of the belt not mattering, that is true in the sense that the skill is not in the belt. In other words, wearing a belt of a different color is not going to affect your skill level. A white belt student who is wearing a black belt on one of those days in which you swap belts is not going to be performing at the skill level of a black belt just because he's wearing the belt. There is nothing magical about a belt, wearing a belt of a higher color is not going to magically give you more skill but that is very obvious and I think everybody already knows that. So when you swap belts if that's what you're trying to teach your students, it's not like you're teaching them anything they don't already know.

Now as far as to whether or not belt colors ever mean anything, that depends. In order for it to mean anything you do have to take into account how a student got the belt. If you don't take into account how a student got a belt then yes, the belt and its color don't mean anything. If you were to just give belts away for free, so to speak, without having any skill requirements on the part of the students to wear belts of whatever color they want then color wouldn't mean anything. If you just let students choose belts of any color they want to wear during class and you did that every day, not just on the days when you swap belts, then color doesn't mean anything (other than the color preference of the student).

If you're going to have skill requirements for belts then belt color does mean something. It means that a student wearing a belt of a particular color has met the skill requirements for that color.

So you agree with me.

 

[drop bear114 53]

You never seemed like the kind of guy that would get weirder out by something silly.

I do. But I have enough metacognition to realise I do.

 

[Buka29 3]

I do. But I have enough metacognition to realise I do.

Always a good thing!

 

[PhotonGuy]

So you agree with me.

To some extent, perhaps, depending on your point of view.

 

[Buka29 3]

To some extent, perhaps, depending on your point of view.

You and I are not so different. My POV and your POV are pretty much the same. You love Martial Arts and I love Martial Arts. Just because we practice different ones doesn’t matter.

All arts are different. Even within the same styles, traditional or eclectic, all dojos are different. As they should be in my opinion.

Sure is a great thing to be involved in. I believe all of us here are more fortunate than most in this crazy path we stumbled upon.

 

[PhotonGuy]

You and I are not so different. My POV and your POV are pretty much the same. You love Martial Arts and I love Martial Arts. Just because we practice different ones doesn’t matter.

All arts are different. Even within the same styles, traditional or eclectic, all dojos are different. As they should be in my opinion.

Sure is a great thing to be involved in. I believe all of us here are more fortunate than most in this crazy path we stumbled upon.

We certainly agree with some stuff. We agree that the martial arts is good and that it shouldn't matter if we do different arts. We both know that all arts are different, we both know that all dojos are different (although Im not sure about everybody on this forum knowing that, some of the people on this forum have given me the impression that they don't know that dojos are different.) And I agree they should be different.

However, when you say that belts and belt color doesn't matter all that much I would have to say that depends on what you mean by not mattering all that much. As I said before, if belt colors don't matter then why not let students wear whatever belts they want in every class? That way color wouldn't matter, it would have nothing to do with rank or skill, and the color of a student's belt would just be a fashion preference. If on the other hand you are going to have requirements for students to be allowed to wear belts of certain colors on a regular basis, then in that case color means something.

I would also like to add that other people on this forum, Im not talking about myself in particular but other people who post here, based on what they post, would disagree with you that color doesn't matter much.

Anyway I've said this in other threads that if you say that belt color doesn't matter, and yet you have requirements for students being allowed to wear certain colors, particularly if you have very high requirements, you're contradicting yourself.

 

[Buka29 3]

We certainly agree with some stuff. We agree that the martial arts is good and that it shouldn't matter if we do different arts. We both know that all arts are different, we both know that all dojos are different (although Im not sure about everybody on this forum knowing that, some of the people on this forum have given me the impression that they don't know that dojos are different.) And I agree they should be different.

However, when you say that belts and belt color doesn't matter all that much I would have to say that depends on what you mean by not mattering all that much. As I said before, if belt colors don't matter then why not let students wear whatever belts they want in every class? That way color wouldn't matter, it would have nothing to do with rank or skill, and the color of a student's belt would just be a fashion preference. If on the other hand you are going to have requirements for students to be allowed to wear belts of certain colors on a regular basis, then in that case color means something.

I would also like to add that other people on this forum, Im not talking about myself in particular but other people who post here, based on what they post, would disagree with you that color doesn't matter much.

Anyway I've said this in other threads that if you say that belt color doesn't matter, and yet you have requirements for students being allowed to wear certain colors, particularly if you have very high requirements, you're contradicting yourself.

Like Yin and Yang, contradiction is a paradox of complementarity. As long as the veneer of bullshite isn’t thicker than the heart of the warrior, there’s rarely a downside and good, like the better martial fighter, will prevail.

 

[Xue Sheng107 25]

Speaking as a person who has spent many years in traditional Chinese Martial Arts, that has no belt rank…. They aren’t that important to me….but if they are to someone else… that’s fine…. Depending on the reason why that is.

 

[clyde-cash]

Speaking as a person who has spent many years in traditional Chinese Martial Arts, that has no belt rank…. They aren’t that important to me….but if they are to someone else… that’s fine…. Depending on the reason why that is.

Exactly this, belt rank wasn't really a thing in Okinawa, if your belt got dirty and black you've just been doing it for a long time.

The Japanese needed to impose their strict class based philosophy on the art when they appropriated it, and then Americans did the same with their consumerist philosophy when they appropriated it.

 

[EskrimaFan]

If someone is a black belt in Shotokan and goes to a Kyokushin school, what are they there? What about a green belt?

At any credible school you would start as a white belt....

Very different style, with very different training methods

 

[PhotonGuy]

Speaking as a person who has spent many years in traditional Chinese Martial Arts, that has no belt rank….

Yes I believe it's common in the Chinese arts to not have belts of rank. A friend of mine once trained in a Chinese style where you would wear a red belt as part of the uniform but it was the same belt you would wear the entire time, you would start with a red belt and you would finish with a red belt.

They aren’t that important to me….but if they are to someone else… that’s fine…. Depending on the reason why that is.

They're not important to everybody but to some people they are. My position is that we should respect what's important to other people even if it's not important to us. If rank belts aren't important to you but they are to somebody else you should respect that, and vice versa.

 

[PhotonGuy]

At any credible school you would start as a white belt....

Very different style, with very different training methods

Well yes if I do go to another school and start learning a brand new art I would want to start as a white belt, or whatever belt they start with.

 

[Xue Sheng107 25]

Yes I believe it's common in the Chinese arts to not have belts of rank. A friend of mine once trained in a Chinese style where you would wear a red belt as part of the uniform but it was the same belt you would wear the entire time, you would start with a red belt and you would finish with a red belt.

been in CMA for 30 years, 99% of the teachers I have trained with did not care about rank. Also trained at a school that has a red sash as partof the uniform

They're not important to everybody but to some people they are. My position is that we should respect what's important to other people even if it's not important to us.

when was that postion made clear?

If rank belts aren't important to you but they are to somebody else you should respect that, and vice versa.

I have nothing against belts, before CMA I trained Japanese Jiujutsu and TKD

 

[isshinryuronin4 4]

contradiction is a paradox of complementarity.

Buka, this is the deepest and wisest thing I remember you saying over the past decade!..........I have no idea what it means. This humble one will require a cave and a year of meditation to reach enlightenment.

 

[drop bear114 53]

At any credible school you would start as a white belt....

Very different style, with very different training methods

Which would be doing the student a favor in that respect.

I wouldn't want to just walk in to the black belt section of a kyokashin school.

 

[clyde-cash]

Which would be doing the student a favor in that respect.

I wouldn't want to just walk in to the black belt section of a kyokashin school.

Honestly, I would. People need to stop being overly respectful in martial arts, it's ruining the art.

If you're skilled you belong with the best, I'm not paying to train with scrubs even at a new dojo.