Learning a new Karate style

[skribs127 148]

For me, this is just informational, as I've never taken a Karate class. But I know there's tons of Karate styles out there (i.e. Shotokan, Kyokushin, Daito Ryu, etc.). If someone is a black belt in Shotokan and goes to a Kyokushin school, what are they there? What about a green belt?

Is your belt tied to your Karate training? Or to your specific style?

 

[wab25]

I have a black belt in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu...

If I walked into your TKD school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one.... How would that go?

If I walked into your BJJ school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one... How would that go?

I trained Kenkojuku style Shotokan Karate for 15 years and made it to brown belt. If I go to any new Karate school, I would go as a white belt. In fact, if I go to any school out side of the organization that gave me a black belt... I would go in as a white belt. If I go into a Danzan Ryu school, within a different organization.... I would go as a white belt. To me, its a matter of respect.... if I have never trained in another school, organization or art.... why should I then consider myself to hold any rank in that art? If I can go into an art, that I have never trained, as a black belt, why would I want to train there, what do I expect to learn there? I carry a white belt in my Gi bag, for when I participate with other schools and or other arts.

 

[skribs127 148]

If I walked into your TKD school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one.... How would that go?

Depending on the school, fairly well. Typically in KKW schools you would go in as a 1st keub and then learn their curriculum to test into black belt. Other schools that are in less stringent organizations or are unaffiliated may just bring you in.

If I walked into your BJJ school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one... How would that go?

Completely different martial art, so you would be expected to be a white belt.

 

[skribs127 148]

If you were to walk into my TKD school, I would have no problem seeing you as a black belt as a sign of respect for you and what you've accomplished in a similar style and similar training conditions.

I feel that Karate and the various Korean versions of it (i.e. TKD, TSD, etc.) all share a similar physical language, what you're learning going from one style or school to another is the accent or dialect. Whereas going to something like Judo or BJJ would be a different language.

 

[isshinryuronin18 18]

a black belt in Shotokan and goes to a Kyokushin school, what are they there?.

These two particular styles share many common technical elements but differ in other ways. Most Shotokan schools will place a high value on kata, not so much for many Kyokushin. Also, the tournament format is different - Shotokan points earned on single strike strategy while Kyokushin is more continuous scoring with heavier contact. So, in this case, more than slight adjustments would have to be made which should affect belt rank (at least, IMO).

oc your belt tied to your Karate training? Or to your specific style?

As mentioned above, some styles share fundamentals, others do not in terms of movement, power generation, stance and execution, etc. With similar styles where differences are minor or just memorization of specifics, I'd be inclined to allow the student to wear his previously earned rank, provided his prior teacher had decent standards. With widely differing styles I think rank adjustment would be called for as the body will require some retraining.

 

[wab25]

Depending on the school, fairly well. Typically in KKW schools you would go in as a 1st keub and then learn their curriculum to test into black belt. Other schools that are in less stringent organizations or are unaffiliated may just bring you in.

Completely different martial art, so you would be expected to be a white belt.

Curious.... why do you feel that Danzan Ryu Jujitsu would be more similar to TKD than to BJJ?

 

[wab25]

If you were to walk into my TKD school, I would have no problem seeing you as a black belt as a sign of respect for you and what you've accomplished in a similar style and similar training conditions.

These are some combinations of Danzan Ryu techniques taught through green belt (white, blue, green):

This is the Danzan Ryu brown belt curriculum:

Maybe your TKD is a bit different to what we normally see on youtube?

 

[Flying Crane]

A small point here: Daito-Ryu is not a form of karate. It is a Japanese jujitsu method, and is the method upon which Ueshiba’s aikido is heavily based upon. Or to put it a bit differently, Ueshiba held a teaching license in Daito-ryu before he began to change how he trained, followed his own path, and gradually developed what became modern aikido. I do not know how old Daito-Ryu is as an established method. But it has been around for a while.

On the main point here, I think allowing a visitor or transplant/new member to wear a black belt out of respect for past accomplishments and legitimate skill, is not the same thing as awarding a black belt to someone simply because he already holds black belt rank in another style, even if a similar style. In the former, I surmise that new student needs to gradually earn a new black belt in the new style, regardless of the black belt earned in a prior system. In the latter, it would simply make no sense to award a new black belt simply because someone already holds a black belt.

Karate is not all the same. Different styles/methods of karate are not all the same. Organizations within the same style are not the same. Different schools within the same organization are not all the same. The rank you earn holds in the school you attend, and nowhere else. Not even in another school in the same style or even same organization, although it might be recognized among those schools. But I think it should not be assumed.

Different schools, different organizations, different styles, are different and rank within them is not universal. So to answer your question: no, rank in one will not automatically transfer into another. It depends, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 

[Same Trick74 25]

For me, this is just informational, as I've never taken a Karate class. But I know there's tons of Karate styles out there (i.e. Shotokan, Kyokushin, Daito Ryu, etc.). If someone is a black belt in Shotokan and goes to a Kyokushin school, what are they there? What about a green belt?

Is your belt tied to your Karate training? Or to your specific style?

Daito-ryu ?

[edit]
Ah, I see the point was made by previous poster

 

[punisher73]

As always, it depends.

It would depend on the school and the organization and what their guidelines were. While most would recognize your achievement, it can cause confusion if a person is wearing a blackbelt from another style and can't perform the required material of the current style.

I think in most cases, a person would promote faster if the curriculum was very similar with just minor adjustments. I have also heard of schools having the student "test" and then spot promote to a certain rank that is the equivalent of their rank standards. This is due to the fact that the person isn't a complete beginner and can discourage other beginning students.

 

[HighKick]

I have a black belt in Danzan Ryu Jujitsu...

If I walked into your TKD school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one.... How would that go?

If I walked into your BJJ school and wanted to be a black belt there on day one... How would that go?

I trained Kenkojuku style Shotokan Karate for 15 years and made it to brown belt. If I go to any new Karate school, I would go as a white belt. In fact, if I go to any school out side of the organization that gave me a black belt... I would go in as a white belt. If I go into a Danzan Ryu school, within a different organization.... I would go as a white belt. To me, its a matter of respect.... if I have never trained in another school, organization or art.... why should I then consider myself to hold any rank in that art? If I can go into an art, that I have never trained, as a black belt, why would I want to train there, what do I expect to learn there? I carry a white belt in my Gi bag, for when I participate with other schools and or other arts.

We have always been an extremely traditional and, by today's standard very eclectic MDK TKD school. We do takedowns and regularly roll (to a limited degree compared to BJJ). What would be considered Hapkido is a normal component in our curriculum. If you came to our school to train, I would give you the option. You could keep your belt and stay at your current rank until you caught up with our curriculum and became proficient or you could simply come up through the Gup ranks like everyone else. If you were reasonably proficient you would likely do one or more skip tests (at no charge FWIW) to rank up faster.

 

[skribs127 148]

My bad on including Daito Ryu. I thought it was a style of Karate (I believe there are other Karate styles that have Ryu in the name? Shorin Ryu or something?). Shotokan and Kyokushin are the only names I'm very familiar with, and I like including things in 3s.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

As others have said, this would vary, but the general principal is that a visitor is usually honored at their rank in their primary art (nearly always their highest rank), while someone joining the school will usually start at white. The main exception would be if they hold any rank in a style that is similar enough to the school's style. Sometimes this might even result in allowing them to enter with their existing rank (in most places I've seen, this would follow some evaluation by the chief instructor). In other cases, it might just be that they progress much faster (perhaps even entering at a midpoint) because of their knowledge.

 

[MadMartigan119 35]

This relates to a thought I've had recently on the same subject.

At least for the colored belts, 1 potential way of handling this, I think, would be to give the transplant member a belt that isn't part of my art (maybe a Grey belt or something). This could show they are not a beginner, without causing any confusion on why a senior belt doesn't know a portion of the curriculum until they have caught up. Once caught up, they could test into whatever rank is most appropriate for their level.

 

[Flying Crane]

My feeling is, when you start in a school that teaches a system that is new to you, you wear a beginners belt and work through the system and any associated ranks. Regardless of prior training. You will probably advance more quickly than a true beginner, and it will be obvious to everyone that you are not a true beginner. But no need to use unusual belt color or other gimmicks to set someone apart. It just isn’t necessary.

 

[drop bear127 3]

Pink belts.

Problem solved.

 

[skribs127 148]

This relates to a thought I've had recently on the same subject.

At least for the colored belts, 1 potential way of handling this, I think, would be to give the transplant member a belt that isn't part of my art (maybe a Grey belt or something). This could show they are not a beginner, without causing any confusion on why a senior belt doesn't know a portion of the curriculum until they have caught up. Once caught up, they could test into whatever rank is most appropriate for their level.

Or if you don't have the multicolor belt, you could use green-and-white or green-and-black to signify there's something a little different.

 

[Buka40]

If a black belt from another style came in and joined, they would wear their previous black belt for three months of classes to be evaluated how it fit in to what we did and how we trained.

It would usually go like this Us - “After all that, how do you think you fit in concerning rank?
Them - “Around X belt.”
Us - “Cool, here.” And we’d have them wear that belt.
There was never a disagreement or a problem.

We also did this with old students of ours who had been away/off from the arts for five or ten years. None of them had a shot of wearing their old belt, too much had changed.

 

[PhotonGuy1]

If a black belt from another style came in and joined, they would wear their previous black belt for three months of classes to be evaluated how it fit in to what we did and how we trained.

It would usually go like this Us - “After all that, how do you think you fit in concerning rank?
Them - “Around X belt.”
Us - “Cool, here.” And we’d have them wear that belt.
There was never a disagreement or a problem.

We also did this with old students of ours who had been away/off from the arts for five or ten years. None of them had a shot of wearing their old belt, too much had changed.

If I remember, at one of the dojos you go to or went to, students would sometimes swap belts and you would wear somebody else's belt for the class, what was the point of that?

 

[Buka40]

If I remember, at one of the dojos you go to or went to, students would sometimes swap belts and you would wear somebody else's belt for the class, what was the point of that?

To show them the color of the belt they wore didn’t really mean all that much. Their knowledge, ability, demeanor and the person and martial artist they were becoming meant more than the color of a piece of cloth.

I used to love putting a white belt around my waist leading a class. And seeing some yellow belt wearing my belt. One of the things it did for them, besides it being kind of fun, was showing them the belt they had around their waist didn’t really matter.

All the students got a kick out of it. We only did it a few times a year, but the black belts would sometimes choose a young under belt they had helped and say, “Here, put mine on and I’ll wear yours.”

It was fun and fostered a feeling of camaraderie.