safety gear

[Manny]

Reading some post about punchinng hard vs puling off the blow, etc,etc, Ibegan to wander abou the safety gear we use in TKD and I have some conclusions I want to share.

I think TKD uses alot pading to do kyorugi and this is wrong,the kids pad them on somuch that in my way of thinking when a bully hit them the kids maybe will not how todeal with this, becausethey know how to fight fully paded and the risk of pain is minimum but....ask the kid to nowear nothing during fullsparring inside the mat and the you can see his/her confidencesuffers and this child fights with a lotof fear of been hurt.

I think the student must wear mouth piece/buccal protector and shin/instep pads or paded boots (like the ones the full contact fighter use) and perhaps gloves (somekind ofboxing gloves or foamdipped like the ones ITF use) and no more...wella cupwillbe nice.

The hogu,the helmet the forearm pads I think is too much.

What do you think? When I trained at Jido Kwan headquartes in my city the only thing I used where the shin padsand nothing else,only in tournaments we were forced to use groin protection and the hogu but nothing else (bakc in mid80's).

Manny

 

[Cyriacus]

Id argue that Protective Gear has some uses.

However, if you take the time to Condition your Body before Engaging in Full Sparring, you can Spar without any Gear.
And in TKD, ive never done it any other way. (Personally. Emphasis on Personally.)

That said, for the benefit of the Sport, I dont see an Issue.
In the Sport Form, the Hogu mostly just makes a loud noise when its struck.
Perhaps Sparring within the Dojang could use less Gear?

 

[Jaeimseu]

I don't see much difference between wearing boots and gloves or wearing a hogu. In one case you are padding the target and in the other you pad the striking tools. Either way there is a layer of protection between the kicker/puncher and the kicked/punchee. In my opinion, sparring full contact frequently with minimal protection is a good way to stay injured. Your body may get "conditioned" to being hit, but I'm not sure why the average tkd practitioner would need to bother with that type of thing.

 

[Cyriacus]

I don't see much difference between wearing boots and gloves or wearing a hogu. In one case you are padding the target and in the other you pad the striking tools. Either way there is a layer of protection between the kicker/puncher and the kicked/punchee. In my opinion, sparring full contact frequently with minimal protection is a good way to stay injured. Your body may get "conditioned" to being hit, but I'm not sure why the average tkd practitioner would need to bother with that type of thing.

Not Conditioned from being Hit. Conditioned FOR being Hit. In Advance.

Get your Forearms.
Say, your Left Forearm, on the Right Side (The Side running down from your thumb) and your Right Forearm (The Side running down from your little finger), and about half way between the elbow and the hand, hit them against each other, right on the bone. Make sure your Fists are Clenched, and you hit as hard as you would with a Block. Do it a few times, and see how it feels.

Because if youre Conditioned enough, you wont feel very much. If you are not Conditioned at all, you run the risk of Injury.
Why do you think Boxers condition their Knuckles without using Gloves?

 

[msmitht]

I agree That some hogus protect too much and make sparring too unrealistic. A headgear is manditory for sparring. It is more to protect the head when you fall than ward off a kick.

 

[Cyriacus]

I agree That some hogus protect too much and make sparring too unrealistic. A headgear is manditory for sparring. It is more to protect the head when you fall than ward off a kick.

I Agree - A Kick will hit Hard with or without a Helmet due to the Penetration and Recoil. The Helmet stops you from hurting your Head with the momentum of Falling. Particularly if youre not Conscious at the time. And Especially if youre doing it over a Hard Floor.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Not Conditioned from being Hit. Conditioned FOR being Hit. In Advance.

Get your Forearms.
Say, your Left Forearm, on the Right Side (The Side running down from your thumb) and your Right Forearm (The Side running down from your little finger), and about half way between the elbow and the hand, hit them against each other, right on the bone. Make sure your Fists are Clenched, and you hit as hard as you would with a Block. Do it a few times, and see how it feels.

Because if youre Conditioned enough, you wont feel very much. If you are not Conditioned at all, you run the risk of Injury.
Why do you think Boxers condition their Knuckles without using Gloves?

Sorry, I missed the part where you said conditioned before sparring. Certainly you can invest time into conditioning your blocking and striking surfaces prior to engaging in sparring, though I still don't think that it's something that the average taekwondoin would need to bother with. I've never concerned myself much with conditioning my forearms as I use traditional blocking techniques very infrequently in sparring. Naturally, each individual's sparring style and the rules followed in your school may make it more useful, but in 18 years I've never thought of it as something important enough to focus on. Conditioning the striking surfaces can largely be taken care of naturally by hitting different targets or breaking, much like a guitar player develops callouses on the ends of the fingers through normal practice.

I would say, though, that while conditioning may prevent you from feeling pain, it doesn't necessarily follow that the risk of injury is lessened. Our bodies experience pain for a reason. For many people, not experiencing pain would create a situation in which injury is more likely.

 

[andyjeffries]

I would say, though, that while conditioning may prevent you from feeling pain, it doesn't necessarily follow that the risk of injury is lessened. Our bodies experience pain for a reason. For many people, not experiencing pain would create a situation in which injury is more likely.

Actually, it does follow. There was an episode of Sports Science (I think it was called Fight Masters) where they showed that the bone density (for example) of properly conditioned fighters was increased. The conditioning had made their bones stronger (therefore less likely to break). Also, well toned muscle is a better shock absorber than fat or less toned muscle, so in conditioning the body you are providing better shock protection (for internal injuries).

Conditioning isn't just numbing the pain receptors, it's actually changing the body at a much more physical level to better cope.

 

[StudentCarl]

I agree that training to pull your strikes is bad. I think that using pads makes it possible to train more often because they do reduce injuries. To some extent it depends on how often you want to hit at full power. Most competitive sport Taekwondoin I know don't bang hard with people all the time because injuries do happen...a lot. They're just part of the sport, and that's even if you're following the rules and not knee blocking. I see enough injuries through every piece of the protective equipment that I don't think it's as overly protective as you suggest.

There's just no substitute for training against a moving, unpredictable target that can hit back. But training regularly with full contact and no gear will make you train less, not more.

 

[Cyriacus]

Sorry, I missed the part where you said conditioned before sparring.

Fair Enough

Certainly you can invest time into conditioning your blocking and striking surfaces prior to engaging in sparring, though I still don't think that it's something that the average taekwondoin would need to bother with.

...That would depend on your Form of TKD.

I've never concerned myself much with conditioning my forearms as I use traditional blocking techniques very infrequently in sparring.

Forearm Blocking isnt necessarily Traditional. It can be a very useful Blocking tool. To each their own, though.

Naturally, each individual's sparring style and the rules followed in your school may make it more useful, but in 18 years I've never thought of it as something important enough to focus on.

Personal Choice there. Where I Train youre shown Hand Blocks, Forearm Blocks, and various other Archetypes. Most People prefer Forearms, due to the Close Distance of most Exchanges.

Conditioning the striking surfaces can largely be taken care of naturally by hitting different targets or breaking, much like a guitar player develops callouses on the ends of the fingers through normal practice.

Precisely. Though id say Breaking is more Demonstrating Good Technique, and Conditioning; More than Gaining the afore mentioned. Hitting Targets for Conditioning however, certainly.

I would say, though, that while conditioning may prevent you from feeling pain, it doesn't necessarily follow that the risk of injury is lessened. Our bodies experience pain for a reason. For many people, not experiencing pain would create a situation in which injury is more likely.

Not Necessarily. Youre not Deadening the Nerves, youre Strengthening the Bone and Muscle. But that requires Controlled Injury. Much like how Weight Lifting Breaks Down the Muscles in your Arms. Then when they Build back Up, theyre Stronger.
Ill refer to a Guitar Player, now. His Fingers dont just Callous. They get sore, and the Skin gets thinned a bit first. THEN they Callous.
Take your Abdominal Muscles. A Beginner can be hit in the Solar Plexus and have the wind knocked right out of them.
Even someone who does Pushups wont be nearly as, if at all, affected.
Body Conditioning doesnt mean beating yourself up. It means Strengthening, so that you stand a far greater chance of not being Harmed.
The Risk is still there, of course. But it is drastically reduced.

I figure breaking the message down made it a bit easier to reply to individual parts, to avoid any confusion.

 

[Jaeimseu]

I figure breaking the message down made it a bit easier to reply to individual parts, to avoid any confusion.

Haha, that's what I get for posting tired. After reading my post again, I'm having trouble piecing together what was going through my mind at the time. When I used the word conditioning I was only thinking about conditioning parts of the body to hit and be hit as opposed to "physical conditioning" as in exercise. I guess what I meant to say was that when it comes to something like specifically conditioning my forearms for contact, I've never really focused on it because I've never felt a specific need for it. So I actually agree with you, I think. To be honest, I'm still trying to make sense of some of what I posted earlier. Sorry for the confusion.


I also didn't intend to imply that blocking with or without the forearm was not a useful tool, only that it's not a tool that I would typically use in the sparring I do at the dojang. If I were dealing with a lot of close distance exchanges I'm certain I would use a lot more blocking techniques, but the sparring I do is primarily the "sport" variety (mostly kicking, no punches to the head). Like you said, personal choice.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Actually, it does follow. There was an episode of Sports Science (I think it was called Fight Masters) where they showed that the bone density (for example) of properly conditioned fighters was increased. The conditioning had made their bones stronger (therefore less likely to break). Also, well toned muscle is a better shock absorber than fat or less toned muscle, so in conditioning the body you are providing better shock protection (for internal injuries).

Conditioning isn't just numbing the pain receptors, it's actually changing the body at a much more physical level to better cope.

I apologize for typing without thinking^^ My sleeping brain didn't quite process everything correctly. For some reason I was only thinking about conditioning the forearms by basically beating the crap out of them to prepare for contact. I can't explain what happened...

 

[andyjeffries]

I apologize for typing without thinking^^ My sleeping brain didn't quite process everything correctly. For some reason I was only thinking about conditioning the forearms by basically beating the crap out of them to prepare for contact. I can't explain what happened...

LOL, no worries brother!

 

[Cyriacus]

Haha, that's what I get for posting tired. After reading my post again, I'm having trouble piecing together what was going through my mind at the time. When I used the word conditioning I was only thinking about conditioning parts of the body to hit and be hit as opposed to "physical conditioning" as in exercise. I guess what I meant to say was that when it comes to something like specifically conditioning my forearms for contact, I've never really focused on it because I've never felt a specific need for it. So I actually agree with you, I think. To be honest, I'm still trying to make sense of some of what I posted earlier. Sorry for the confusion.


I also didn't intend to imply that blocking with or without the forearm was not a useful tool, only that it's not a tool that I would typically use in the sparring I do at the dojang. If I were dealing with a lot of close distance exchanges I'm certain I would use a lot more blocking techniques, but the sparring I do is primarily the "sport" variety (mostly kicking, no punches to the head). Like you said, personal choice.

Its all Good