Kug Maky Ung Ryu Ninjitsu

[Cryozombie]

But, as long as he does not try to commercially pass off his 'art' as genuinely rooted in Ninjitsu and does not attempt to teach it as such to anyone but his sons, then, other than them, who does he hurt?

His kids, potentially. Anyone they pick up and try to teach, 20 years down the road when they feel qualified to teach their secret family art for money.

Let me ask you somthing Suk...

How would you feel if I joined a LARP group and pulled out my foam fantasy sword for a while, then came on here and told you I was starting my own Koryu Sword School.

At the very least you would find it, stupid, that I would misuse the terminology so badly, knowing that it couldnt be Koryu... but even beyond that, wouldn't it kinda burn your, ah, fish and chips, even a little after you put in the time and effort to learn, that someone could just claim mastership and teaching rights over what you do from some backyard play?
Thats one why I have so little respect for guys like Tew.

 

[shesulsa]

It is a valid point, "teaching" his children something that isn't valid, that doesn't work and they walk into the world and into more dangerous situations with false confidence. He might swing a stick or thrust a knife only to find one or both in his gut.

And "reality based" doesn't really mean anything if you don't live in the real world, train with real people, learn from people who've really been there.

Emilio?

Videos, por favor?

 

[Sukerkin]

What we sometimes to forget to hold in our thoughts when we discuss things of passion (to us) here on the Net is that it is just the Net.

Cryo, I have not gainsayed any of the valid criticisms that have been leveled at this fundamentally flawed idea of 'grow-your-own-but-pretend-it's-real' art. I have indeed encountered some of the foam-sword brigade who believe they know more about swordwork than Iwata Sensei and briefly tried to amend their views (I probably went too far when I called it "glorified baton twirling" ). That's where I learned the true futility of Web Combat :lol:.

The huge "but" that comes as a caveat to this is that, if someone is already decided on their course of action then, no matter how much flame is roared at someone in a forum, they are not going to alter what they plan.

Telling someone that what they intend is not going to be well thought of by those experienced in the field can be a service but once that's been done any subsequent 'swings of the hammer' only serve to weary the hammer wielder. The 'target' does not care and is unaffected.

 

[Twin Fist]

hmmm.

well...

no thats not right.

but...

ok.

Best advice? take your sons and join a class together. Why? I teach. I KNOW that the question a teacher gets asked more than any other is "Why?"

without a solid, and I mean YEARS of study under masters, background, i could not answer those questions.

if you cant explain WHY, you are not a teacher.

 

[MJS]

It is a valid point, "teaching" his children something that isn't valid, that doesn't work and they walk into the world and into more dangerous situations with false confidence. He might swing a stick or thrust a knife only to find one or both in his gut.

And "reality based" doesn't really mean anything if you don't live in the real world, train with real people, learn from people who've really been there.

Emilio?

Videos, por favor?

This thread is starting to remind me of this nightmare. Gotta love it when people either a) make up their own stuff or b) take stuff from others, put it in a new package and try to pass it off as something "new, ultimate and never before seen" when the whole time its nothing new. Oh and notice how we never heard from those 'ultimate fighters' anymore. Hmmm...and where were those vids again? LOL

 

[Aiki Lee]

Emilio, I don't see what you want from us. You can teach your kids whatever you want. You can call your art whatever you want, but no one will ever take you seriously if you call your art some made up words + a ninjItsu tag on the end of it.

People have been know to create decent CQC styles from scratch, but really there's no point. All the possible ways to attack or thwart an adversary has been identified by now, there is no way you can come up with something that hasn't already been invented.

If you insist on doing it, that's your choice. There's a possibility you could reinvent the wheel and make it work, but you should name it something that makes sense, not some weird mix of japanese and gibberish.

If you want to teach your kids your new "art" go ahead, but at least give it a name they can say without being laughed at by the entire martial arts community.

 

[MarkBarlow]

If you want to teach your kids your new "art" go ahead, but at least give it a name they can say without being laughed at by the entire martial arts community.

Dad's Delusional Do? Father's Fantasy Fighting? Pop's Load 'O Crap?

 

[emiliozapata]

I attempted to leave the matter, yet posters continued to attack me and misrepresent my stated goals, qualifications and intentions. Any subsequent posting I made attempted to address these attacks.

Bester boasts while he insults, and therefore exposes himself. His many years of purported blood, sweat, and tears has left him with little confidence, and subsequently , the need to post the drivel that he does. I pity him. Barlow as well.

 

[morph4me]

I have taken a first aid course, CPR training and have watched countless hours of ER, Greys Anatomy, House, not to mention Marcus Welby, Dr. Kildaire and Ben Casey. I think I'll open a clinic.

 

[TimoS]

I attempted to leave the matter, yet posters continued to attack me and misrepresent my stated goals, qualifications and intentions

Be that as it may, you seem to be unable to understand the scepticism here. Here are some reasons: you never really addressed the question of your qualifications, except by saying you've done some judo and BJJ and that you have military experience, but when asked how long you've studied judo or BJJ, you just refuse to answer. That, to me at least, is a huge red flag suggesting that your experience in both of those arts is very limited at best. Oh and since neither of those arts is anything like the x-kan stuff I've seen, so even combined with any military experience you might have (the special forces stuff is something you yourself alluded to), it won't come even close to what real ninjutsu looks like

 

[MarkBarlow]

If you are truly unable to see the humor in the situation, you have more problems than can be addressed in this forum. Since the situation is quickly shifting from amusing to sad, I think I'll move on.

Best of luck to the kids.

 

[MJS]

I have taken a first aid course, CPR training and have watched countless hours of ER, Greys Anatomy, House, not to mention Marcus Welby, Dr. Kildaire and Ben Casey. I think I'll open a clinic.

:lfao::lfao:

 

[emiliozapata]

Skepticism I understand, childish insults I don't. This will certainly be my final post on this thread. If I learn to do videos I will post some training stuff.

I was a judo brown belt under mark tripp and am a BJJ blue promoted by Royce. I competed at the grappler's challenge in Toronto, Shingitai Nationals, too many judo tourneys to list, and I have also competed at Kerry Roop's fight nights in Rochester , MI. I have traveled to Pennsylvania for a weekend ROSS intensive.

My placings have always been high, sometimes due to the fact that I am a big, strong athlete, superior in athleticism to most of my opponents by sheer good luck of genetics. This year I will compete in both a triathlon and a weight classed strongman.

Good luck to all my detractors in whatever paths you follow, including your authentic ,holy grail lineages that have been preserved by such iron clad authenticities such as secret oral legend. In seeing all the various ryu that are out there who claim lineage and all the bitter infighting it causes amongst you, I realize none of you have really learned anything about how real ninjas would have operated.

 

[MJS]

Skepticism I understand, childish insults I don't. This will certainly be my final post on this thread. If I learn to do videos I will post some training stuff.

I was a judo brown belt under mark tripp and am a BJJ blue promoted by Royce. I competed at the grappler's challenge in Toronto, Shingitai Nationals, too many judo tourneys to list, and I have also competed at Kerry Roop's fight nights in Rochester , MI. I have traveled to Pennsylvania for a weekend ROSS intensive.

My placings have always been high, sometimes due to the fact that I am a big, strong athlete, superior in athleticism to most of my opponents by sheer good luck of genetics. This year I will compete in both a triathlon and a weight classed strongman.

Good luck to all my detractors in whatever paths you follow, including your authentic ,holy grail lineages that have been preserved by such iron clad authenticities such as secret oral legend. In seeing all the various ryu that are out there who claim lineage and all the bitter infighting it causes amongst you, I realize none of you have really learned anything about how real ninjas would have operated.

Hmm...instead of making something up, why not teach some of the stuff from the grappling arts you've learned? Also, have you looked at those links I posted? Better yet, if your kids are really into the arts, why not just enroll them in a school?

 

[MJS]

I also wanted to add....I find it amazing that you seem so surprised about the replies you're getting to an 'art' that you claim you are making up. Usually, anyone who is remotely serious about training, hates to hear people create something and label it as something new, when in reality, it isn't. Pretty much, what you're doing, falls into the McDojo, fake/fraud category. I know you're going to disagree, however, this is the truth.

 

[TimoS]

I realize none of you have really learned anything about how real ninjas would have operated.

Oh? And how can you tell? After all, you've said it quite clearly yourself: you have no real knowledge about ninja. You have done "self studied" material from Hatsumi and Hayes and that's it for your connection to authentic ninjutsu.
Oh and as for making your art when you are not even a first degree black belt in any of the totally unrelated arts? Good grief! Are you serious?! Just an example: my former karate sensei was a 6. dan with more than 30 years of experience before he decided to create his own style (after some major disagreements with the head of the style). At your level, you are nowhere near knowing the full system!

 

[Sukerkin]

At the risk of inviting one last hurrah, I have to say, emilio that it is only such lines as your last that has so stirred the pot.

Once people have aired their views on the pitfalls and flaws inherent within the richly ploughed and richly ridiculed furrow of DIY-MA's they'd more than likely have left it at that.

Maintaining these allusions to connectons to the ryu of a art that you do not have is deeply insulting to those who are part of that lineage. For lineage and legitamcy is one of the defining characteristcs of a koryu art. Claiming that legitimacy unjustly is what sparks the comments that you have found hurtful.

If you don't care about the credability of lineage, indeed seemingly holding it in disdain, then why is it that you are 'stealing' the name? In effect, sticking a Mercedes badge on a 'new' car made from some bits of old ones welded together. In and of itself, that's not a big deal; but it becomes one if you then start to claim that it is a Mercedes.

Do you see the inherent double-standard that has caused all these pages of troubles?

If you truly don't see what you are doing is wrong, then the best of luck to you ... especially if you do, after all, intend to teach publicly and there is a legitimate school in your area. In the mythical 'old days', who knows what measures would have been taken to sort out the confusion - these days, lawyers do the visiting if there is the merest hint of the sniff of a winnable suit .

As I said before tho', if all you want to do is teach your lads an art of your own making, then all you can hurt is yourself or them - just trust to the truth of the matter that is really is better to steer clear of calling it ninjutsu.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I guess I am a ninja then.

Who'da thunk.

By the way, I do some crosstraining with the local BBT school. You should try it out Emilio. It's good training and every practioner I've met have been good people.

 

[MJS]

I realize none of you have really learned anything about how real ninjas would have operated.

And you have? Other than getting all of your info. from books, tapes, and dvd, what LEGIT Ninjutsu source have you physically got info from? Have you gone to a Bujinkan school, a Jinenkan or Genbukan school? Hell, even Steve Hayes would be worth talking to. But again, if all you're doing is quoting books, well......

You seem to forget, that there're a number of folks on this board, very knowledgeable about the X-Kan arts. Kreth, Brian, Dale Seago....3 people right there, who, if you were serious about real training, would be more than happy to help, I'm sure.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dr. Hatsumi didn't "make something up".
He inherited a number of established systems, and more or less unified them under one roof.
Some of his students left, taking part of those systems, and unified them with others to create the various "x-kan" groups.
Stephen Hayes didn't take a couple of low belt ranks, and some tv magic, to create his own system. He took the training he received from a legitimate grandmaster in legitimate systems, and added his own flair to it.

There is a difference between some mat time and book learning, and real training and experience.

People sometimes go the "Bruce Lee did it route".
Bruce had legitimate rank/experience in real arts, mixed in his own ideas and grafted in various techniques to create his system. Others however took it further. Lee was gifted, but his base was still a legitimate art where he had extensive experience.

There's a difference that the OP misses. His listed experience only reinforces the majority of peoples concerns I think, that he is not qualified to found his own art.
An art I might add, named in an imaginary language, based on his fantasies of being a ninja and wanting to be a founder.

Why not graft in Klingon Batleth techniques, or Atlantian Trident kata as well? Both are cool to watch, fun to play with, and ultimately pointless.

I'm sorry, but having read this mess, I wonder if someone's just screwing around with us as I have a hard time believing that anyone serious could be this dense.