Towel Snapper
Green Belt
Seems like the odds are stacked against you and always will be but whats the best thing to do in this bad situation in your opinion?
Knife Defense: Best strategies in your opinion?
- Thread starter Towel Snapper
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donald1
Senior Master
The best strategy is what works for you I'm going to make two examples someone tall with long legs would be good at distances and could use long legs to an advantage
One more, when it comes to weapons weapons like tonfa or sai, those are both that can be used effective in a strategy but personally for me I prefer a distance weapon i can hold with both hands like a bo staff. So I can keep the opponent at distance and come up with techniques as I go
That's my ideal strategy yours may be different, most likely it is but in a way of saying this question is more like an individual question what works for the first person might not work for the second vise versa in a way the answer is similar to the question what style is best.
One more, when it comes to weapons weapons like tonfa or sai, those are both that can be used effective in a strategy but personally for me I prefer a distance weapon i can hold with both hands like a bo staff. So I can keep the opponent at distance and come up with techniques as I go
That's my ideal strategy yours may be different, most likely it is but in a way of saying this question is more like an individual question what works for the first person might not work for the second vise versa in a way the answer is similar to the question what style is best.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
It would take me about a months worth of classes to give you our best tactics on this topic… frankly, there's no where near enough information in your description to give anything other than "it depends". But, the very first thing is to learn what an actual knife assault is like.
donald1
Senior Master
I failed to notice that first word was knife but none the less I think the answer would still vary depending who's welding the knife.
For instance someone had butterfly knives they might want to fight close up
Or a different knife like a dao, maybe a Liuyedao or a pudao could be an extended reach
I don't know if a kwandao would be considered a knife considering it's size but it does have knife in the name, none the less unlike the weapons listed above this one would be better used with distance
For instance someone had butterfly knives they might want to fight close up
Or a different knife like a dao, maybe a Liuyedao or a pudao could be an extended reach
I don't know if a kwandao would be considered a knife considering it's size but it does have knife in the name, none the less unlike the weapons listed above this one would be better used with distance
Towel Snapper
Green Belt
And what approach of fighting them would yo recommend for the average man?
Don't go places where knife attacks are likely.
I don't know too many people who can honestly claim true expertise in defending against knife attacks. I know a few who can tell you what worked for them in one or two incidents. The nearest I've come to being attacked with a knife -- I dealt with by keeping a car between me and them, and pointing a gun at them. The gun rather convinced them to put the knife down. But I knew he had a knife first... In many knife attacks, you don't know about the knife until you realize you're bleeding...
Probably not a lot of point answering this now but that approach I would advise everyone to take if at all possible, that and variations such as jks posted. Anything but fight unless you really really have to.
If you are going to run make sure you have a good chance of getting away and are not abandoning a potential victim who may not have a good chance and always remember that when you are running you may have someone chasing you with a knife.
True. The question is so generalised though giving anything but a generalised answer is difficult isn't it.
Badger1777
Green Belt
I agree with the 'leg it' advice, and the 'don't be there in the first place' advice. But that's generally speaking.
There are of course many and varied complications to both strategies, some of which have already been mentioned, but here's one more. If you leg it, you must consider that you may not be able to run as fast or for as long as your attacker who may be chasing you. That being the case, the worst thing you can do is run out of stamina while still being chased. I.e. don't burn yourself out running. If it looks like you might not out run the assailant, you want some energy left to fight him.
So, it comes down to an actual fight. What is the best strategy? There isn't a best strategy. You simply have to read the situation very, very speedily and improvise.
There are of course many and varied complications to both strategies, some of which have already been mentioned, but here's one more. If you leg it, you must consider that you may not be able to run as fast or for as long as your attacker who may be chasing you. That being the case, the worst thing you can do is run out of stamina while still being chased. I.e. don't burn yourself out running. If it looks like you might not out run the assailant, you want some energy left to fight him.
So, it comes down to an actual fight. What is the best strategy? There isn't a best strategy. You simply have to read the situation very, very speedily and improvise.
We train against knives almost every class and you regularly feel the knife getting through. Message being, you can train as much as you like. It may save your life but there are no guarantees you will be successful.
But in terms of strategies. I would suggest an improvised weapon may give you an edge. Anything from a chair or other furniture if you are inside to a handful of dirt or a stick if outdoors. Even using your belt or a rolled up magazine or paper. Going in empty handed is absolutely the last option.
:asian:
mook jong man
Senior Master
Just to give you an idea of how fast a knife thrust can be , I trained under this guy Ray Floro in Sydney for about a year.
In that time I don't think I ever managed to parry one of his knife thrusts to the face , and I am not exactly slow when it comes to hand speed.
[video=youtube_share;hV5TfZBB1Lo]http://youtu.be/hV5TfZBB1Lo[/video]
In that time I don't think I ever managed to parry one of his knife thrusts to the face , and I am not exactly slow when it comes to hand speed.
[video=youtube_share;hV5TfZBB1Lo]http://youtu.be/hV5TfZBB1Lo[/video]
I was finishing tidying up after Rainbows ( baby Girl Guides) in the hall a few weeks back when the Beaver's ( baby Scouts) leader came in, they follow us. She was all excited because she'd been on a course about dealing with difficult young people and they'd had an instructor show them how to disarm someone with a knife and they 'practised doing it too' so now she is convinced she can safely disarm an attacker. I tried to explain to her but because it worked on the person she practiced with she wouldn't be convinced. Even my fellow Guider, someone who knows nothing about martial arts, self defence etc said she could see this woman was deluded or had been given a very false sense of security. Now it's been a few weeks I wonder if she can actually remember the moves?
Badger1777
Green Belt
A while ago, in our class, I was handed a rubber dagger and asked to attack in a certain way so that my training partner, much higher grade than me, could practice his disarms and counters. Being inexperienced in this club, I managed to completely misinterpret what he'd asked me to do, so in a sweeping motion, I ran the rubber dagger right across his lower abdomen. Apparently I was supposed to aim higher, and a a different angle, and had I done so, I have no doubt he would have effectively disarmed me as everything about his body positioning was right for a defence against the attack he expected, and which I would have done, had I not misinterpreted his instruction.
In a club setting, these mishaps and errors generally lead to no real harm. Ok, accidents happen, which is why they use rubber knives just in case we get it wrong, but generally it is carefully choreographed and subject to strict rules. Outside of the club setting, there are no rules (I'd say "believe me, I know", but I suspect everyone else does too). I've been in scrapes and walked (or ran) away, clearly with the upper hand, but with no idea how come. When its for real, everything happens so fast and so many hormones kick in, you can't calmly recite every move afterwards.
In a club setting, these mishaps and errors generally lead to no real harm. Ok, accidents happen, which is why they use rubber knives just in case we get it wrong, but generally it is carefully choreographed and subject to strict rules. Outside of the club setting, there are no rules (I'd say "believe me, I know", but I suspect everyone else does too). I've been in scrapes and walked (or ran) away, clearly with the upper hand, but with no idea how come. When its for real, everything happens so fast and so many hormones kick in, you can't calmly recite every move afterwards.
I think what it demonstrates very well is that if you allow a person inside striking range it is almost impossible to stop them. For a start, it is the attacker's call when the attack is to begin. Your reaction time to the attack determines the outcome.
Try out your reaction time here: Human Benchmark - Reaction Time Test
Now think about false starts in athletics. If you move within 0.1 seconds of the gun it is a break because the brain doesn't register quicker that that. Then your brain has to get the message to the muscles to react, at least another 0.1 seconds. In the same time a sprinter had gone 2 metres. In the situation of the knife attack, the only way you can be faster than that is to anticipate the attack from an understanding of body language and react instinctively. If you watch the hand you will be cut.
Take home message ... keep outside the range.
In the meantime I have something to try out on the guys next week.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
Hi Badger,
I know it can be rather easy, when in a set training exercise, to say that someone only has success because they know what's coming, but in reality they wouldn't, but that's only a part of itÂ… what has to be remembered is that you were (at that point) learning a particular technical methodÂ… a mechanical applicationÂ… the other student was trying to employ the technique correctly, not because they were trying to defend against a knife, but because they were trying to learn that technique. As a result, they were looking for that particular attackÂ… and looking to use a particular movement in response. Sure, ideally, a different attack would be noted before impact (I don't know how experienced your partner at the time was), but the mentality (and expectation) in that context shouldn't be overlookedÂ… nor mistaken for something that might happen in "real life". In a real encounter, your partner would (hopefully!) not be looking for a single, particular attackÂ… they'd be watching to see what came in firstÂ… and respond with something appropriate to that. In the class, he would simply have been looking to use the technique he was learningÂ… so that, if he had to rely on it, he would have tested and trained it already. There is, as you can tell, a big difference between training a specific technique, and training an unannounced responseÂ… getting them mixed up can lead to misunderstanding the viability of both training methods.
To be fair, Ray has stated that no-one has been able to parry those shotsÂ… of course, he also freely admits that it's really not much more than a parlour trick he uses for seminarsÂ… illustrating a point, obviously, but not quite what it appears to be presented asÂ…
I get the sentimentÂ… but to be honest, it's not advice I'd giveÂ… at least, not by itself. RTKDCMB touched on a part of why in the following post:
If you're employing running as a tactic, the most important thing to ensure is that you have the safe option of doing soÂ… our young "self defence demonstrator", Sherman, had that as his "knife defence" option at the end of his first videoÂ… but what he showed (specifically) would have had him with a knife in his back pretty quicklyÂ… as none of the requisite conditions for running were met. Honestly, even if you are running, if the other guy is chasing you, and catching up, you're best off turning to face themÂ… the option is that they catch up, and they only need to get a finger to your clothes in order to start to go to workÂ… it's really hard to defend yourself facing away from the danger...
Get a rubber knife (or a soft, flexible stick) and poke her. Then poke her again. See how many times you can poke her before she remembers what to do...
