KKW vs. WTF?

[irishwolf08]

I remeber being corrected a week or so ago in a post, saying instead of calling my TKD organization WTF, I should have called it Kukkiwon (sp?).
I'm not to sure what thats about. Why call it KKW instead of WTF? Would anyone mind explaining that to me?
Thanks!

 

[terryl965]

WTF is the World Tae Kwon Do federation and they govern the sport aspect, I.E. rules and how the game is played.

Kukiwon is a place that issue worldwide recognition for you certificates, they was once about S.D, but that is really starting to change since they work hand to hand with each other.

 

[Jphtkd]

A big part of the problem is that the WTF and Kukkiwon were founded by the same person, and for a long time the WTF offices were in the Kukkiwon Building. They have since separated, and no longer have the same president. The Kukkiwon was built in 1972 as a center for the development of taekwondo. The WTF was founded in 1973 during the first world taekwondo championships as a governing body for the sport of taekwondo.

 

[miguksaram]

It was already said but I will reinerate. There is a difference between the two. WTF is the world sport governing body for TKD. KKW is the system of TKD that you study. If we want to get technical then neither is actually correct.

When the kwan leaders developed TKD, it was just that...TKD. That was the style of martial art. Then they built the KKW. This building was developed to house all the administration for TKD, but TKD was still TKD. The only difference was that all the decision makers now had an office to determine the curriculum for TKD. The WTF was formed strictly as the governing body for sport (as I just noted in previous paragraph).

It wasn't until Gen. Choi broke off and formed the ITF that people started breaking TKD down into catagories of ITF vs KKW. ITF sets the curriculum for their TKD and KKW sets he curriculum for their TKD. That is why we call KKW TKD what it is. The KKW determines the actual basic curriculum for TKD, not WTF. WTF couldn't care less if you know palgue or Taeguk forms. That is why saying you study WTF TKD is wrong.

I hope this helps.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I remeber being corrected a week or so ago in a post, saying instead of calling my TKD organization WTF, I should have called it Kukkiwon (sp?).
I'm not to sure what thats about. Why call it KKW instead of WTF? Would anyone mind explaining that to me?
Thanks!

That may have been me.

Terry put it pretty much perfectly. The KKW establishes the curriculum, qualifications for promotion, and administers the instructor's certification courses. All certification is handled by the KKW.

The WTF is more like the UFC. They establish the rules for taekwondo competition and sparring. Point values, valid target areas, allowable techniques, point/continuous vs. point/stop, all of these are regulated by the WTF.

The WTF style is often called 'Olympic style', which is technically incorrect, but appropriately descriptive and it often is more effective for telling people what you are talking about.

Another issue that ties them together is that the WTF deferrs to the Kukkiwon for certification. Thus you cannot technically have a WTF yudansha. You have a Kukkiwon yudansha who competes in World Taekwondo Federation sanctioned matches.

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

you cant spell KKW without Kooky........

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

you cant spell KKW without Kooky........

Are you calling the KKW the 'Kooky' Won?

Daniel

 

[Twin Fist]

every day

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

every day

Calling them Kooks? I mean like, WTF man!

Daniel

 

[chrispillertkd]

It was already said but I will reinerate. There is a difference between the two. WTF is the world sport governing body for TKD. KKW is the system of TKD that you study. If we want to get technical then neither is actually correct.

When the kwan leaders developed TKD, it was just that...TKD. That was the style of martial art. Then they built the KKW. This building was developed to house all the administration for TKD, but TKD was still TKD. The only difference was that all the decision makers now had an office to determine the curriculum for TKD. The WTF was formed strictly as the governing body for sport (as I just noted in previous paragraph).

It wasn't until Gen. Choi broke off and formed the ITF that people started breaking TKD down into catagories of ITF vs KKW. ITF sets the curriculum for their TKD and KKW sets he curriculum for their TKD. That is why we call KKW TKD what it is. The KKW determines the actual basic curriculum for TKD, not WTF. WTF couldn't care less if you know palgue or Taeguk forms. That is why saying you study WTF TKD is wrong.

I hope this helps.

When was the Kukkiwon founded? Is that what you're referring to when you said Gen. Choi "broke away" from something? The ITF was founded in 1966 and, IIRC, the Kukkiwon wasn't built until 1972 (or there abouts) after Gen. Choi went into self-imposed exile in Canada. (I believe Kim Yong Soo was integral in raising funds for its construction.)

Pax,

Chris

 

[Errant108]

Calling them Kooks? I mean like, WTF man!

Daniel

Actually, it's the same sound and word as Gook, a racist term used to describe Asians since the Korean war.

國/국/Guk = Nation

 

[StuartA]

When was the Kukkiwon founded? Is that what you're referring to when you said Gen. Choi "broke away" from something? The ITF was founded in 1966 and, IIRC, the Kukkiwon wasn't built until 1972 (or there abouts) after Gen. Choi went into self-imposed exile in Canada. (I believe Kim Yong Soo was integral in raising funds for its construction.)

Pax,

Chris

Gotta agree. ITF was formed years before the WTF.
1966 - ITF
1972 - WTF
1973 - KKW (I believe)
1999 - Rayners Lane TKD :ultracool

Stuart

 

[Jphtkd]

Gotta agree. ITF was formed years before the WTF.
1966 - ITF
1972 - WTF
1973 - KKW (I believe)
1999 - Rayners Lane TKD :ultracool

Stuart

04/1955 the name Taekwondo was created
03/22/1966 ITF was formed by Gen. Choi hong hi
11/30/1972 Kukkiwon was completed
03/28/1973 WTF was formed at the first world tkd championships

 

[Miles]

What about the predecessor to the KKW?
9/14/61-Korea Taesoodo Assn founded
9/19/61-Unification meeting at which Gen Choi, Hwang Kee, Ro Byung Jik, and Yoon Kwe Byung resign from the Association which gave Hwang Kee and Gen Choi the freedom/opportunity to "do their own thing." Gen Choi becomes ROK Ambassador to Malaysia
11/11/62-first unified promotional test by the KTA
01/65-Gen Choi becomes (3rd) President of KTA, a position he held for 6 months

My purpose in pointing out these dates is to show that yes, the ITF was founded before the KKW. However, the ITF was not founded in a vacuum-there was a pre-existing organization, the KTA, from which the KKW emerged when the need arose.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Actually, it's the same sound and word as Gook, a racist term used to describe Asians since the Korean war.

國/국/Guk = Nation

I am aware of that, as doubtless T/F is. If I am not mistaken, Kukkiwon would transliterate to nation+power+association.

But the word kook or kooky in western usage does not carry that meaning. Much as in modern usage, the term, WTF, has a very different coloquial meaning than World Taekwondo Federation.

Daniel

 

[NPTKD]

WTF couldn't care less if you know palgue or Taeguk forms.

Not true.. The WTF world poomsae championship only use Taegeuk and Black belt forms,not Palgwae

 

[miguksaram]

Not true.. The WTF world poomsae championship only use Taegeuk and Black belt forms,not Palgwae

Yes, it is requirement for their sport so if you participate in their sport you have to go by their rules. However, they are not an issuing certification body for your black belt as such, outside of you playing in their games, they don't give a rip how you got your black belt.

 

[troubleenuf]

If the truth be told, the Kukkiwon dosnt care a less what you teach as long as you send in $$$ for certificates. Not anything against those who tested in Las Vegas (thought about it myself) but take a look at it from this view.
They tested people that the didnt know, didnt do background checks on, and didnt know the following:
How many times the actually worked out... every day, once a week, once a month, never....
If they were school principles, congressmen, child molesters, rapists, ect.
If they were legitimate martial artists or someone who just wanted a piece of paper to make themselves feel good.

You also wont see anyone from the Kukkiwon doing the following:
Visit your school to make sure you are teaching Kukkiwon TKD or "Joes kicking stuff".
Revoke or otherwise take action against one of its "certified" instructors. They have no dispinairy policies in place and no matter what "rumors" you hear about revoking certificates it just dosnt happen.

WTF couldn't care less if you know palgue or Taeguk forms.

Not true.. The WTF world poomsae championship only use Taegeuk and Black belt forms,not Palgwae

 

[dortiz]

Yup,
they dont have some special investigations squad. What they do have is the same format they have always used. Recommendation from another 4th Dan minimum or higher ranked if a higher Dan is being asked for. So a 5th Dan tester would need a 6th or above to recommend them. The forms have to come in from a Kukkiwon ranked Dan holder. They ask that the person sending it in knows that their minimum standards are met. You can have higher standards but all they require is the minimum and thats fair.
So can that be flawed yes. But you have to run an honorable art assuming most have honor.

Dave O.

 

[troubleenuf]

Thats true, But I know of at least on 5th dan who is a child molester, never did anything to him. You can assume anything you want but that is being a bit naive.... If an organization wants to maintain its integrity it HAS to have steps to penalize/sanction its members when things go wrong. Failing to do so while "legitimizing" instructors means nothing more than the bottom line is $$$ not what you stand for.

Yup,
they dont have some special investigations squad. What they do have is the same format they have always used. Recommendation from another 4th Dan minimum or higher ranked if a higher Dan is being asked for. So a 5th Dan tester would need a 6th or above to recommend them. The forms have to come in from a Kukkiwon ranked Dan holder. They ask that the person sending it in knows that their minimum standards are met. You can have higher standards but all they require is the minimum and thats fair.
So can that be flawed yes. But you have to run an honorable art assuming most have honor.

Dave O.