Kenpo and Kung Fu

Xue Sheng

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I feel the same my friend, I like Kenpo karate but don't like wushu.

I don't like chicken period, if you invited me to dinner at your home and the oly thing to eat is chicken I will eat it for don't spect I would have a second plate, however if you invited me to dinner in a Restaurant I won't esat chicken period.

There are people who likes and loves wushu and that's fine, simply I don't like it.

Manny

But does not liking chicken mean yo don't like any protien?

I submit you don't know what wushu is.
 

dianhsuhe

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Daniel- At least say "In my opinion one cannot have a fundamental..." I say this because I totally disagree. I really do not like most Chinese styles where the moves are huge and flamboyant whatever those are called (insert Jet Li movie here> ) but I have a sincere appreciation for Kenpo.

I also enjoy 9-ball in billiards but have a deep seated dislike for the more common 8 ball game.

I really appreciate Van Gogh's "Cafe at night" but do not like his paintings of flowers. How is this possible? How can I appreciate one without the other? Dunno, but I do...I could go on and on with these awkward analogies but I think you get the point.

Our system has quite a bit of (apparent) TCMA influence (tighter circles and less wasted motion) but that does not require me to "appreciate the merits" of the other Chinese styles that do not utilize the tighter circles and a reasonable economy of motion.

Manny- I am with ya! I love Kenpo but hate whatever those styles are called and if someone wants to tell me that EPAK and whatever those styles are called are even remotely similar, I am going to break out my "flask". LOL

Daniel- Please check my above post for any still existing errors and let me know, in the most condescending way possible, how I can improve the post.

You know exactly what I was writing about, why the arrogant post?

WoW
 

David43515

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dianhsuhe and Manny

OK then tell me what Wushu is?

Xue, I feel for you. I teach English as a foreign language all day, every day. But they`re missing the point, so you guys are arguing about two completly different topics.

Wushu and Gungfu are NOT styles of martial arts. "Wushu" is just the Chinese term that means "martial arts". Okinawan Karate, Brazillian Capoeira, Filipino Kali, Muay Thai, TKD, boxing, wrestling, and cowboy-style gunfighting would ALL be termed "wushu" in Chinese.

What Dianhsuhe and Manny are saying isn`t really too different than saying, just an example, "I love being christian (or muslim, or buddhist), but I hate religion." It`s self contradicting.

But getting back to the original question, yeah Parker `s Kenpo was heavily influenced by Chinese styles. He learned Kenpo in Hawaii from William Chow, he was friends with Choy Lay Fut master Lau Bun (NOT a student of, Lau Bun didn`t teach non-chinese period), and I`ve heard lots of old school Kenpo people talk about the Hung Gar connection.
 

Xinglu

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Daniel- Please check my above post for any still existing errors and let me know, in the most condescending way possible, how I can improve the post.

You know exactly what I was writing about, why the arrogant post?

WoW

I had no idea what you were writing about as it was unclear in the terms used. The best I could do was guess and hope I was interpreting you correctly.

If the correction of misuse and abuse of language is arrogant, then forgive me for attempting to teach you about Mandarin and the proper use of it's terminology.

I assert that I was not being condescending, however if you took offense to my correction then I am curious as to why. Perhaps you inferred tonality that was not intended?

Perhaps it is that I even presumed to make the correction in the first place?

I'm genuinely curious.

Almost forgot....When will I see you in class next?
When I'm medically cleared to go back.
 

dianhsuhe

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Xue, I feel for you. I teach English as a foreign language all day, every day. But they`re missing the point, so you guys are arguing about two completly different topics.

Wushu and Gungfu are NOT styles of martial arts. "Wushu" is just the Chinese term that means "martial arts". Okinawan Karate, Brazillian Capoeira, Filipino Kali, Muay Thai, TKD, boxing, wrestling, and cowboy-style gunfighting would ALL be termed "wushu" in Chinese.

What Dianhsuhe and Manny are saying isn`t really too different than saying, just an example, "I love being christian (or muslim, or buddhist), but I hate religion." It`s self contradicting.

But getting back to the original question, yeah Parker `s Kenpo was heavily influenced by Chinese styles. He learned Kenpo in Hawaii from William Chow, he was friends with Choy Lay Fut master Lau Bun (NOT a student of, Lau Bun didn`t teach non-chinese period), and I`ve heard lots of old school Kenpo people talk about the Hung Gar connection.

I have already conceded that I misused the term "Wushu". But it should have been abundantly clear that I was referring to the chinese styles that utilize big circles.

Not sure why I have to keep explaining this. I do not like the larger moving chinese systems (Choy Li Fut or similar) but I do like Kempo (Kara-Ho would be an example).

I appear to be just another part of the unwashed masses so I may be a lost cause.
 

dianhsuhe

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I had no idea what you were writing about as it was unclear in the terms used. The best I could do was guess and hope I was interpreting you correctly.

If the correction of misuse and abuse of language is arrogant, then forgive me for attempting to teach you about Mandarin and the proper use of it's terminology.

I assert that I was not being condescending, however if you took offense to my correction then I am curious as to why. Perhaps you inferred tonality that was not intended?

Perhaps it is that I even presumed to make the correction in the first place?

I'm genuinely curious.


When I'm medically cleared to go back.

Sent you a PM
 

David43515

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I have already conceded that I misused the term "Wushu". But it should have been abundantly clear that I was referring to the chinese styles that utilize big circles.

Not sure why I have to keep explaining this. I do not like the larger moving chinese systems (Choy Li Fut or similar) but I do like Kempo (Kara-Ho would be an example).

I appear to be just another part of the unwashed masses so I may be a lost cause.

Please don`t take it personally. And if you felt like everyone was piling on, I`m sorry.

I know that I`ve written things at times that I thought were perfectly clear (because I knew what I meant), but later when other people read the post they got something completely different out of it. They thought I was saying something 180 degrees different. If that`s the case, I`m sorry.
 

Xue Sheng

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Yes, I have trained with some San Soo folks, not sure what "Sanda" or "Police Military Sanda" is though.

Then this statement

Manny- I am with ya! I love Kenpo but hate Wushu and if someone wants to tell me that EPAK and Wushu are even remotely similar, I am going to break out my "flask". LOL

is without merit since you have no idea what some CMA styles are

And I submit that you need to utilize the spell-check function..

Cool, you can’t answer the question because you don’t know what you are talking about so you throw in an insult, close your account and run away ... isn't that special.
 

Xue Sheng

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Folks, I might be about to give the vulgarity filters a bit of a workout.

I actually was thinking about this entire thread last night, which is IMO rather sad. But here is my final thought on the issue

Frankly I don't care if anyone likes CMA or not nor do care if someone, that is part of kenpo/kempo (however it is spelled) or EPAK, wants to believe that CMA and any of the plethora of styles that make up CMA (aka Wushu) have no similarities, no matter how delusional that may be. I am not going to waste anymore time in futile attempts to educate anyone.

Bottom-line is that if you buy a BMW 6 series and discover you don't like it I honestly do not think that gives you the background and knowledge to state all European cars are bad. I also do not feel that if you are driving a Chevy Camaro that you can honestly believe and state that that Camaro has no similarities to a BMW. But if that is what you want to believe then so be it, I wont take you seriously but I am sure that doesnt matter either.


Well that wasn't so bad, I only had to edit it 6 times before posting and the vulgarity filters, in the end, didn't have to do anything at all

Later
 

DocWard

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I don't think your attempts were futile in every case, or at least my case. I can honestly say I learned something, and appreciate it.

While I am "aware" of CMA, I am not by any stretch what I would consider knowledgeable about them beyond some of the basics. For me, any chance to learn something about them, especially at a basic basic level, is a good thing.
 
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Manny

Manny

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Please correct me if I am wrong afther this idea storm:

1.-I love Kung Fu, cause I work hard and put all my efforts in what I like MA for example.

2.-I love Wushu, because wushu is the meaning of martial arts in Chinese.

3.-I don't like Chinese Martial Arts in particular y like some korean martial arts, i like some japanese martial arts.

I like protein but not the one from chicken ok?

Manny
 

Xinglu

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At least it seems that most on this thread don't seem to be taking a correction of linguistic terminology as a personal assault. Thank you for keeping open minds.

Manny, Kenpo without the influence of various TCMAs would still look much like how Mitose taught it, which (from hearing the accounts of those older and wiser then me) appeared much more like Karate.

Considering that you like Kenpo, I bet you would also like or at least appreciate yong chun. I make this guess for several reasons.

1. It shares Kenpo's doctrine on fast and relaxed hand strikes, thus giving it blinding speed.

2. Like Kenpo the strategies revolve around taking the center-line and then "pouncing for the kill."

3. It is huge on checks and traps which play into the strengths of any Kenpoka.

4. Your expressed admiration for the gungfu of Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee's style was based primarily upon Yong Chun and is the basis to much of his approach to the other martial arts he blended into his personal fighting method.

Remember folks, Kenpo is not done growing/evolving. It should never be. We have the responsibility as Kenpoka to keep open minds to the arts around us and adapt what works and makes our Kenpo better.

My guess is that if Parker was still around today he would have continued to make changes and developed an extensive anti-grappling curriculum which would have taken him to teaching principles from various TCMA with experience in this, to include including more jujutsu then what already exist. And he would have done it without compromising the core concepts and doctrines of Kenpo.
 
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