Judo question: Am I getting ripped off?

[BeeBrian]

Hi folks!

So like, I went to my very first martial arts gym... ever... for the first time in my life. lol.

Looks were deceiving. From the outside, the place looked like a small, 20x20 office. But when you get inside and see the back, it's like a Vale Tudo paradise. lol.

So yeah. I met with the owner/manager of the place, whom I'll call Billy. First disappointing thing I learned was that 2 out of 3 of his instructors were mere purple belts... But thankfully, they only teach the "basics of grappling", and by "grappling", meant Brazilian jujutsu and wrestling (he has high level wrestling coaches who used to be collegiate champions). And by "basics", he meant "positions and escapes".

Judo is like an appetizer of the whole program. I was prepared for this, as Judo was not really as heavily advertised as their Combat Fitness program. And unfortunately, the only Judo class they have happens once a week... during hours where I work... Bleh...

The classes that I can attend, however, are his basics of grappling classes, which is two days a week on times when I can actually attend.

This is very very appealing to me because: A.) I LOVE it when trainers in all areas of anything put big emphasis on the basics. I know personally that if I train a novice in powerlifting, I wouldn't put him in a Smolov program if he's never squatted more than twice a week in his life. B.) It's only two classes and there will be no randori, which means my powerlifting progress won't be affected by any strain from the grappling sessions.

One thing he did mention was that, for them, it is easier to transition a pure ground fighter into stand-up grappling than it is to transition a pure stand-up grappler to ground fighting. And their basics of grappling classes are solely geared towards teaching students two things: Positions and Escapes (lots of emphasis he put on the Guard).

The whole program is 6 months, 2 classes a week, $80 per month.

It's not Judo at all, but I'm still tempted...

Worth it, or rip off?



It's very close to home. It's like, less than 1 quarter mile.

 

[Dinkydoo]

The club seem to have been fairly up front about what they offer and have given you a fixed price, it's up to you to decide whether $80 per month is worth around 8 classes - it's certainly not an outrageous price.

I don't have much grappling experience so I can't really comment on the training on offer. It sounds interesting though

Edit: just realised this was specifically a Judo question! Its been a long day.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I thought all Judo starts from "hip throw - the mother of all throws". You should be able to master your "hip throw" within the 1st 6 months of your Judo training, That's more important than anything else IMO.

 

[drop bear]

If that is $80 a month for unlimited training and pay as you go. That is not to bad.

for what is the easier transition. No idea.

 

[BeeBrian]

If that is $80 a month for unlimited training and pay as you go. That is not to bad.

for what is the easier transition. No idea.

Not pay as you go. They had the option of either 100 a month, or 1 payment of 480 for half a year.

I'm opting for the single-payment option. And most likely, since I'm obsessive about foundational learning, I'll retake it twice.

 

[BeeBrian]

I thought all Judo starts from "hip throw - the mother of all throws". You should be able to master your "hip throw" within the 1st 6 months of your Judo training, That's more important than anything else IMO.

I heard the true basics of judo was learning how to breakfall.

 

[drop bear]

Not pay as you go. They had the option of either 100 a month, or 1 payment of 480 for half a year.

I'm opting for the single-payment option. And most likely, since I'm obsessive about foundational learning, I'll retake it twice.

yeah. If you could get your basics down it would be helpful. We do more escapes than anything. A purple belt and good wrestling should do fine to be honest.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I heard the true basics of judo was learning how to breakfall.

If you have thrown your opponent with "hip throw" 100 time, and also have been thrown by your opponent's "hip throw" 100 times daily, In 6 months, you will need to train your break fall 100 x 6 x 30 = 18,000 times. You will be very good in your break fall as a "by product".

 

[Shai Hulud]

I heard the true basics of judo was learning how to breakfall.

Yes, the judoka has to learn the art of break-falling before anything else, but the basics of the Tachi Waza are the hip throws and the reaps, namely Uki Goshi, Ogoshi, Tsurikomi Goshi, Osoto Gari, Ouchi Gari, and Kouchi Gari.

That being said, it's up to you whether you decide that the fee's something your wallet will care for or not. I must point out though that Randori is crucial for your development in Judo, or its cousins BJJ, Jujutsu, or Sambo (Randori in the same sense does not exist in Aikido).

 

[drop bear]

If you throw your opponent with "hip throw" 100 time, and also be thrown by your opponent's "hip throw" 100 times daily, In 6 months, you will need to train your break fall 100 x 6 x 30 = 18,000 times. You will be very good in your break fall as a by product.

If you cant break fall. You will notice. Trust me.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If you cant break fall. You will notice. Trust me.

Agree!

After you are good in break fall, the term break fall will have no meaning to you. Besides in training, you want your opponent to worry about his break fall and hope you will never need to use your break fall for the rest of your life.

 

[kuniggety]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but you're overly dis servicing the purple belts. It takes years... The average seems to be about five... To get your purple belt in BJJ. If they're teaching, they're probably well qualified purple belts. A purple belt in BJJ already knows 90+% of the techniques (and extremely well versed in the "fundamentals"). The difference between them, a brown, and a black is the experience of chaining them together and having build an intuition or feel of the moves rather than too much thinking while rolling.

 

[WaterGal]

Is that US$80? If so, $80/month for martial arts classes seems very reasonable, though I guess it depends on the cost-of-living/incomes/etc in your area.

And what kuniggety says is about what I'd heard, too, that BJJ takes much longer to progress in than a lot of other arts, so a black belt is a very high rank there and not needed to teach.

 

[Danny T]

$80.00 per month for instruction and training is quite reasonable. That is only $10.00 per session and if it is at a professional facility with high quality instruction, coaching, & high quality equipment to train on/with that is inexpensive.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Despite the title of the thread, it's not really a judo question, since the classes in question aren't judo. It sounds like you're looking at an "introduction to ground fighting" course, which isn't a bad thing and will help with your newaza when you do get a chance to take regular judo classes.

A good purple belt in BJJ should be qualified to teach an intro ground fighting class, no problem. I started teaching when I was a purple belt. $80/month isn't too bad, depending on the area you are in. (My gym charges $70/month if you are training 2 days per week, $100/month for unlimited classes every day and we have multiple black belt instructors. However I'm in an area with a low cost of living. Comparable schools in New York or LA charge much more.)

Where are you located? There might be more schools available to choose from.

 

[Zero]

$80.00 per month for instruction and training is quite reasonable. That is only $10.00 per session and if it is at a professional facility with high quality instruction, coaching, & high quality equipment to train on/with that is inexpensive.

Yeah, initially it sounds horrifically high at $80 per month but as Danny T says, that's $10 per session. These days, that is not too much. In London if you take an informal MA class rather than monthly payment it is often £15 a pop. This is more for the set-ups as you are looking at, the large, multi-discipline schools.

For the smaller, but also as awesome (sometimes more so...just saying...) judo or karate schools in the local Scout hall, then you can maybe pay £4 - 6 per session. Sometimes those sensei just don't care about anything more than covering the rent of the hall.

 

[Zero]

It may be completely unfair and baseless but for some reason the phrase "Combat Fitness System" has me asking questions...

Sounds like a half-way house to nowhere-ville if you are a serious fighter and no what you are doing and need.

If you want to get fit, do the road work.
If you want to get fight fit, do the sparring and partner work and the road work.
If you want to get fit just in general do the treadmill or zumba class in the gym.
If you want a combat system, train in a specific combat system - whatever a "combat system" is? And I mean a viable combat h2h system (krav? WWII Combatives)?
If you want to just fight just do the fight training, boxing, bjj, whatever.

But "Combat Fitness System"? There doesn't need to be anything wrong with commercialism and commercial schools, they can have some of the best trainers out there, but this screams commercialism and just a roll-call for the masses...

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi folks!

So like, I went to my very first martial arts gym... ever... for the first time in my life. lol.

Looks were deceiving. From the outside, the place looked like a small, 20x20 office. But when you get inside and see the back, it's like a Vale Tudo paradise. lol.

So yeah. I met with the owner/manager of the place, whom I'll call Billy. First disappointing thing I learned was that 2 out of 3 of his instructors were mere purple belts... But thankfully, they only teach the "basics of grappling", and by "grappling", meant Brazilian jujutsu and wrestling (he has high level wrestling coaches who used to be collegiate champions). And by "basics", he meant "positions and escapes".

Judo is like an appetizer of the whole program. I was prepared for this, as Judo was not really as heavily advertised as their Combat Fitness program. And unfortunately, the only Judo class they have happens once a week... during hours where I work... Bleh...

The classes that I can attend, however, are his basics of grappling classes, which is two days a week on times when I can actually attend.

This is very very appealing to me because: A.) I LOVE it when trainers in all areas of anything put big emphasis on the basics. I know personally that if I train a novice in powerlifting, I wouldn't put him in a Smolov program if he's never squatted more than twice a week in his life. B.) It's only two classes and there will be no randori, which means my powerlifting progress won't be affected by any strain from the grappling sessions.

One thing he did mention was that, for them, it is easier to transition a pure ground fighter into stand-up grappling than it is to transition a pure stand-up grappler to ground fighting. And their basics of grappling classes are solely geared towards teaching students two things: Positions and Escapes (lots of emphasis he put on the Guard).

The whole program is 6 months, 2 classes a week, $80 per month.

It's not Judo at all, but I'm still tempted...

Worth it, or rip off?



It's very close to home. It's like, less than 1 quarter mile.

Hmm… are you getting ripped off? If you are wanting to learn Judo, yeah… I mean, there's often no purple belt in Judo (only a junior rank in most cases when it's used)… if you're just wanting to get a basic in modern, dominantly ground-based grappling, then maybe not. But you're the one in the class… so it depends on if you're getting the value you are looking for for your investment. Nothing else really matters.

That said, well done on getting to a class.