Is there such a thing as being "over armed"?

pmosiun1

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Is it possible to be too well armed for self-defense? This question comes to mind after reading some of the posts in the thread, Some Daily Carry Options... I mean, regardless of the legality, if you are carrying a small arsenal of guns, knives, and other weapons, what will it look like to those who will sit in judgement of you, should you ever have to use a weapon in self-defense. If you are attacked and you use a knife or gun in self defense, that's one thing. But if the cops, judge or jury find that you were literally armed to the bloody teeth, how will that play? Might it not look like you were spoiling for a fight, ...like you might possibly have provoked the situation? It might be different for LEOs, security personnel and people whose jobs place them in situations of unusual risk. But what about the normal guy who carries several guns, large and small knives, and all kinds of other vicious doo-dads? Even if it's legal where you live, such behavior might seem a bit like a wacko to some? Just a thought.
Yes, it would look bad if you are not a law enforcement or security. "Normal" guy would not be look upon favorably.
 

Chris Parker

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(Just because it's a great part of a great book....)

From the book Pyramids, by Terry Pratchett.

....its dying rays chanced to shine in through a window in the city of Ankh-Morpork and gleam off a mirror.It was a full-length mirror. All assassins had a full-length mirror in their rooms, because it would be a terrible insult to anyone to kill them when you were badly dressed.

Teppic examined himself critically. The outfit had cost him his last penny, and was heavy on the black silk. It whispered as he moved. It was pretty good.At least the headache was going. It had nearly crippled him all day; he'd been in dread of having to start the run with purple spots in front of his eyes.He sighed and opened the black box and took out his rings and slipped them on. Another box held a set of knives of Klatchian steel, their blades darkened with lamp black. Various cunning and intricate devices were taken from velvet bags and dropped into pockets. A couple of longbladed throwing tlingas were slipped into their sheaths inside his boots. A thin silk line and folding grapnel were wound around his waist, over the chain-mail shirt. A blow-pipe was attached to its leather thong and dropped down his back under his cloak; Teppic pocketed a slim tin container with an assortment of darts, their tips corked and their stems braille-coded for ease of selection in the dark.He winced, checked the blade of his rapier and slung the baldric over his right shoulder, to balance the bag of lead slingshot ammunition.

As an after-thought he opened his sock drawer and took a pistol crossbow, a flask of oil, a roll of lockpicks and, after some consideration, a punchdagger, a bag of assorted caltraps and a set of brass knuckles.Teppic picked up his hat and checked its lining for the coil of cheesewire. He placed it on his head at a jaunty angle, took a last satisfied look at himself in the mirror, turned on his heel and, very slowly, fell over.
 

Omar B

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(Just because it's a great part of a great book....)
From the book Pyramids, by Terry Pratchett.
....its dying rays chanced to shine in through a window in the city of Ankh-Morpork and gleam off a mirror.It was a full-length mirror. All assassins had a full-length mirror in their rooms, because it would be a terrible insult to anyone to kill them when you were badly dressed.
Teppic examined himself critically. The outfit had cost him his last penny, and was heavy on the black silk. It whispered as he moved. It was pretty good.At least the headache was going. It had nearly crippled him all day; he'd been in dread of having to start the run with purple spots in front of his eyes.He sighed and opened the black box and took out his rings and slipped them on. Another box held a set of knives of Klatchian steel, their blades darkened with lamp black. Various cunning and intricate devices were taken from velvet bags and dropped into pockets. A couple of longbladed throwing tlingas were slipped into their sheaths inside his boots. A thin silk line and folding grapnel were wound around his waist, over the chain-mail shirt. A blow-pipe was attached to its leather thong and dropped down his back under his cloak; Teppic pocketed a slim tin container with an assortment of darts, their tips corked and their stems braille-coded for ease of selection in the dark.He winced, checked the blade of his rapier and slung the baldric over his right shoulder, to balance the bag of lead slingshot ammunition.
As an after-thought he opened his sock drawer and took a pistol crossbow, a flask of oil, a roll of lockpicks and, after some consideration, a punchdagger, a bag of assorted caltraps and a set of brass knuckles.Teppic picked up his hat and checked its lining for the coil of cheesewire. He placed it on his head at a jaunty angle, took a last satisfied look at himself in the mirror, turned on his heel and, very slowly, fell over.

Awsome! Someone else who reads Pratchett around here! Have you read Men At Arms yet? It's a City watch book and deals with the first gun showing up in the city.
 

Andy Moynihan

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The most I've ever carried at once was 2 sidearms,( primary at belt, 1 spare mag, small backup at ankle) folder, and spray. However, the purpose was to see if, within comfort/clothing limits it *could* be done, not intending that it should be a daily loadout.

When most people in the self defense community consider a cellphone, flashlight, pepper spray and a folder( or kubaton if you don't want a "lethal" option) to be the minimum practical loadout, there's only so much more you can add before you start clanking when you walk.

I like the idea of a backup gun, in the event the primary should malfunction, but at the end of the day, for most of us, should the firearm be required to save our lives, we're gonna run out of time before ammo no matter WHAT we have, even if just a 5 shot snubby.

Nowadays its usually 1 sidearm, 1 knife, and if I want another option i'll shove a spray unit in a pocket. Any more than that stops helping me and starts being in the way along with the phone/light on the belt.
 

Cryozombie

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Awsome! Someone else who reads Pratchett around here! Have you read Men At Arms yet? It's a City watch book and deals with the first gun showing up in the city.

I've read them all, except for the Young Adult ones. I just got the BBC adaptation of "Going Postal" as well, so now I have all the Movies/Cartoons. They don't really do the books Justice, but are still fun. (And ok, the woman who played Susan in Hogfather was just plain hot.)

As far as the Original topic... you are over armed whenever you have more than you need. So, in theory, every day you leave with a weapon and have no cause to use it, you were over armed.

I find that idea preferable to being under armed, which is a sorry situation I am forced into by my State on a daily basis.
 

sgtmac_46

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Is it possible to be too well armed for self-defense? This question comes to mind after reading some of the posts in the thread, Some Daily Carry Options... I mean, regardless of the legality, if you are carrying a small arsenal of guns, knives, and other weapons, what will it look like to those who will sit in judgement of you, should you ever have to use a weapon in self-defense. If you are attacked and you use a knife or gun in self defense, that's one thing. But if the cops, judge or jury find that you were literally armed to the bloody teeth, how will that play? Might it not look like you were spoiling for a fight, ...like you might possibly have provoked the situation? It might be different for LEOs, security personnel and people whose jobs place them in situations of unusual risk. But what about the normal guy who carries several guns, large and small knives, and all kinds of other vicious doo-dads? Even if it's legal where you live, such behavior might seem a bit like a wacko to some? Just a thought.

Certainly if you end up in a water survival situation. You may be 'too armed' to swim.
 

elder999

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I guess it depends on where you are, and what you're doing. In New York, my daily carry-pistol, knife, pen-is "over armed," and illegal.

Here, it's merely "dressed," in most places-though it's "overdressed," and, until recently, illegal for an establishment that serves alcohol.
 

Hudson69

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I can respect what your saying. However, legally your requiredto use only the force necessary to protect/repel yourself from an attack. If you go overboard--you'll be standing tall before the man to explain yourself.

Of course, once the zombie apocalypse hits then all bets are off.

I think tactical and practical should go hand in hand when dealing with everyday, plain-clothed carry, LEO or civilian but that is up to the individual.... and the situation and environment will adjust each person's view differently.

When I worked Patrol I always had a back-up (snub .357) on my ankle and it allowed me to wear it home and leave the work gun at work. If I went somewhere where I felt I needed more than 12 rounds (six in the gun and six on a speed strip) I usually stepped up to a Compact 9 with a spare mag; I always have my folding blade knife with me. This is still how I work but it is what works for me.

If you have a nice set-up that works for you, you can function at your job and in society without setting off everyone's danger sense or weirdness meter then more power too you as long as you are operating within the law.

I even keep a BOB in my car; but that is only for the pending Zombie Apocalypse.... :wink:
 

bribrius

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I do think there is a thing called overkill.
Going to church on a sunday morning fully armed is one such example.
But walking into a dangerous neighborhood (gang territory, et al) because a friend/sig other is stranded and needs a ride outta there isn't over kill because often times they're probably more heavily armed than you are.

How much one should carry on their persons I think should be determined by where one is and the circumstances (as well as the time of day). A good MA-ist or warrior mind set should know and know how to judge appropriate weaponry to meet the situation however hypothetical it may be.

Oh sure there are those who think that "you never know when you'll end up in the middle of a gun battle inside of a McDonalds. :rolleyes: While it's possible... if the eatery is in a bad neighborhood... chances are not likely.

Being realistic, and being trained to deal with whatever situation that you find yourself in with whatever weaponry (or lack of) you have in your hands, should carry you through. All of that and a cool head.

I have my pocket folder and my SD training... roughly 90% of the time that would've been adequate. When I'm out camping or hiking in the deep woods I'll carry a large Dundee type knife on my person along with my folder, mainly because I don't worry so much about bears as I worry about hearing banjo music. Beyond that... meh.

agree with this. i almost never carry where i am now. Mostly because of location, where i am going, and the type of problems i might face. If it comes to a physical alteraction the weapon is a further liability as you are pulling it on someone that is most probably unarmed. Causing problems in itself. For a case like a firearm if i was carrying it would cause a futher issue if it wasn't displayed, as the other party may get ahold of the weapon, or i am confronted with protecting the weapon where as otherwise no weapon may be introduced into the situation. I do not want to be grappling with a firearm in the mix that i brought into it. Once you introduce a weapon it complicates things, so if no introduction of it is needed that would be preferable.

when i carry it is a .45, and it is concealed. I prefer not to stand out. I only carry under certain conditions.

People that know me, or know of me, understand it is hit or miss on whether i am carrying. Many confrontations happen from people you know or are acquainted with, or have even heard of you from another. Since they know there is a chance i might be carrying, that in itself is a deterrant.
 

Stac3y

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I could use an extra arm, or three. :ultracool
 

Bikewr

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I frequent another defense-oriented forum (bladeforums) and when some of the lads list their "EDC" I'm kind of shocked.
I'm an LEO, and I don't carry as much weaponry as some of these lads claim to while I'm on duty.

Off-duty... I confess I rarely even carry my gun. (we are not required to.)

However, with my wife mostly housebound due to disability I rarely go anywhere more dangerous than Wal-Mart.


On duty, we have a well-defined "continuum of force" and receive considerable training in the appropriate use of all the tools we have available.
Normally, I have pepper-spray, baton (ASP), Taser, and firearm. Each appropriate to a different level of force.
For the civilian who carries a firearm, there's always the problem of responding with the only weapon you have... Which may or may not be appropriate.
I would think that the addition of pepper-spray into your EDC would not be a bad idea.
 

jks9199

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I frequent another defense-oriented forum (bladeforums) and when some of the lads list their "EDC" I'm kind of shocked.
I'm an LEO, and I don't carry as much weaponry as some of these lads claim to while I'm on duty.

Off-duty... I confess I rarely even carry my gun. (we are not required to.)

However, with my wife mostly housebound due to disability I rarely go anywhere more dangerous than Wal-Mart.
I don't know where you work -- but I would strongly urge you to carry when off duty if you're permitted to. Dave Grossman addresses this at length in his Bulletproof Mind presentation. I'll make it simple. I'm not that worried about being attacked; it could happen, but it's not real likely. Nor am I that worried about running into some idiot I've dealt with -- and I've been on a regional gang unit for several years. What I am afraid of is being there when anything happens, from some random active shooter to a terrorist attack or even "just" a domestic dispute and being unprepared -- then having to live with myself and all the "if only I'd carried that day..." thoughts.
 

Shin71

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I frequent another defense-oriented forum (bladeforums) and when some of the lads list their "EDC" I'm kind of shocked.
I'm an LEO, and I don't carry as much weaponry as some of these lads claim to while I'm on duty.

Off-duty... I confess I rarely even carry my gun. (we are not required to.)

However, with my wife mostly housebound due to disability I rarely go anywhere more dangerous than Wal-Mart.


On duty, we have a well-defined "continuum of force" and receive considerable training in the appropriate use of all the tools we have available.
Normally, I have pepper-spray, baton (ASP), Taser, and firearm. Each appropriate to a different level of force.
For the civilian who carries a firearm, there's always the problem of responding with the only weapon you have... Which may or may not be appropriate.
I would think that the addition of pepper-spray into your EDC would not be a bad idea.

You should see an AF Security Forces roll out: I am issued an M4 (with 3 rnd burst capability), an M9, baton, pepper spray and always carry a knife.

As a Reserve Deputy Sheriff I carry a Glock 23 with three mags (standard for everyone) and a Snub .357 mag on my ankle. In the cruiser I have my own AR-15 (they won't issue to Reservists but allow us to use our own if we have one) and every cruiser has an 870 shotgun. I have only pulled the AR one time and that was for containment for a SWAT hit, I have pulled my Glock a couple of times but it was for times you should have it out; Robbery alarms and the like.

Off duty I carry my .357 just so I have it, it is small and doesn't get in the way; it is just habit now (I try and remember to have a speed strip with 6 extra rounds as well). I always have a good folding blade knife with me as well. I have never had two guns on me while just going out...

I guess it depends on the situation but in my opinion; yes you can be over armed as well as under armed.
 

DinoSmurfy

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Yes, it's possible. If it's affecting your movements and comfort, then you're over-armed.

Besides, you usually just get a split second to draw your weapon when needed. No, you won't get 10 seconds to decide which weapon is the best one to use.

I suggest just a few of the ones that you're most comfortable with, then master them.
 

Supra Vijai

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I've read them all, except for the Young Adult ones. I just got the BBC adaptation of "Going Postal" as well, so now I have all the Movies/Cartoons. They don't really do the books Justice, but are still fun. (And ok, the woman who played Susan in Hogfather was just plain hot.)

Yes she was! I see your collection of all the Movies/Cartoons and raise you the Playstation games Sir... They mainly focus on the wizards and Rincewind in particular but are still fun
 

xfighter88

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For me personally I believe in overkill. If some other person wants to carry an armory I am fine with it. Until it's illegal let them do what they want. As "nuts" as he looks to me think of how much more nuts he looks to the criminal with a glock that just walked in. Would you rob that McDonalds if you saw rambo?
 

chinto

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no I do not believe its possible to be "over armed" if you know how to use the weapons in question.

Now, can it be counter productive at times to say be walking arund with a battle rifle on your shoulder...maybe.

If they re concealed properly, no one will know you are carring weapons... if you are doing open carry, well a lot of places do not like it. check the laws.

I have noticed a lot of LEO types seem to not like any one but a LEO having a weapon let alone carreing it in a lot of places, so you may be looking at greef from some that way. but to be over armed? nope.
 
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