Is It Possible?

[Kaygee]

Good luck to everyone in your training! God-speed!

 

[Sukerkin]

Nobody gets really good training alone without good partners.

That made me recall something I was told long ago when I was training in Lau Gar - you rise to the level of your opponents. In that particular instance the outcome was less than satisfactory as the school was overly focussed on winning silverware in competition but the principle remains true.

 

[Sukerkin]

I think this perception is why so many people quit after getting their black belt. They know it all and they can see from what the more advanced students are doing that it is just more of the same

I don't disagree in principle with what K said in the post this is from but I do have to add that if experienced eyes do not see a difference watching my performance, at third dan, versus that of my sensei, a sixth dan (long overdue for higher), then something is seriously amiss . Some days I get to thinking that just maybe I am getting good at this sword-slinging lark ... then I watch my sensei doing the same form and reconsider :lol:.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't disagree in principle with what K said in the post this is from but I do have to add that if experienced eyes do not see a difference watching my performance, at third dan, versus that of my sensei, a sixth dan (long overdue for higher), then something is seriously amiss . Some days I get to thinking that just maybe I am getting good at this sword-slinging lark ... then I watch my sensei doing the same form and reconsider :lol:.

funny, I have the same experience with my training and my sifu. Just when I'm feeling like I can do this stuff pretty well, he can make me feel like I can't do anything simply by showing a better example.

 

[frank raud]

No school around here "pressure tests" any of the skills that you are taught anyway, outside of worthless point sparring.

You could always switch to judo, that would take care of the worthless point sparring.

 

[alburyscott]

Kaygee, why so dismissive? I answered your question with respect, no attacks, from my point of view with examples and supporting opinion. It sounds to me that you had the answer you wanted, and ran when you didn't get it.

A very respected mentor of mine often says "If you don't want an honest answer, don't ask the question."

So to sum it up, isn't it the same? Not in the slightest. Wont it make you better than you are now? Probably. If it is what you want to do, go for it. If you are looking for validation, go crazy. Heck get some bumper plates, a bar and lear to olympic lift, you will be a strong powerful beast fast (thats what I love to do btw, hence the analogy), but I don't for a second think that replaces my martial arts class.

Just out of interest, since you seam to want reality based self defence, got any Krav Maga or Systema around you. Once or twice a week there (and often cheap) might be the ticket in a short period of time. Or Judo, that stuff can be NASTY, and clubs (at least here) are plentiful and cheap.

Good luck mate, hope whatever you choose brings you peace and joy

 

[Blindside]

That made me recall something I was told long ago when I was training in Lau Gar - you rise to the level of your opponents.

I always heard the opposite; "you sink to the level of your training," which might be a good quote for Kaygee to take notice of.

 

[ballen0351]

Why do so many people think your going to only need martial arts against untrained dunk punks? In reality people like that are easily avoidable you can see them as soon as you enter a bar who you should avoid. In reality real criminals do train. They train in prisons and with other criminals. As a police officer I've. Talked to many criminals I see them at the gym I see them going to dojos and now a lot go to mma gyms. I was once told by a guy "I like going to prison so I can get better training so I can be better prepared to fight you". I took that to heart and started Martial Arts classes that week. The real problems are not drunks at bars. Real criminals are always training and preparing for fights. I once pulled up to a group of 5 girls attacking a 6th girl. They were between 7 and 10 years old. I stopped them and the girl getting attacked got mad at me. She said they were her friends and they were taking turns fighting each other because there was supposed to be a big fight at school in the next few days and they wanted to be ready. I talked to the parents and none of them seemed upset by this.
So the sooner people realize there are real bad people out there that really do train the sooner you will see the value in training yourself.

 

[Carol]

These guys train every day...

http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2011/06/06/my-day-in-a-california-prison/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[DennisBreene]

If you consider a blackbelt as the end of learning then there is no point in training at all. I see a black belt as the beginning of training. You get a black belt you finally know the basics of the style and now the real learning can start.

I agree with ballen0351, but I also understand that martial arts study is broad enough to accomadate any number of perspectives. I enjoy the timelessness of an art that is passed on through the generations. I recognize that that does not ensure an overarching knowledge of martial arts but it is a way of belonging to something larger than myself. It is important to me that my system survives and that there are practitioners who devote a lifetime to studying the arts and passing it on to others. I enjoy teaching what little I have to offer and at my age, I find these aspects more important than what I can physically accomplish. Working with others and maintaining connections with other practitioners of the arts is another form of human contact that gives me roots. These days, I find that more important than my black belt or my individual progress.

 

[Sukerkin]

I always heard the opposite; "you sink to the level of your training," which might be a good quote for Kaygee to take notice of.

I agree :nods:. The phrase was used in the context of the quality of your training partners rather than 'opponents' in the combative sense.

 

[Kframe]

Kaygee, i have read your threads in the past and this current one and ill say this. To me it sounds as if you just dont like the traditional side of martial arts. IE the forms and no contact drills ect ect. It sounds like you love the martial arts but feel that something is missing. Your quest to find the "perfect" Dojo, is similar to what i experianced not to long ago. I was on a quest to find the "perfect" TKD school. One day it came to me, that no school in tkd would be able to satisfy the criteria i was looking for. So with a broken heart, i accepted the fact that modern combatives marital arts was for me.(notice i did not say MMA)

Maybe you have a unrealistic set of expectations for what you want out of a school. I know i did. I expected a tkd school that actually used there hands, had quality sparring out side of the Olympic rules, and practiced (frequently) all forms of takedown defense. You just strike me as someone on a similar path as me. Dont waste as much time as i did searching for that perfect school. Maybe what you want lies out side of the Traditional martial arts. Maybe what you want is a modern combatives or even mma style. Heck you could do a few seperate arts at the same time and get the same results. Dedicated boxing gyms tend to be very cheap. My boxing gym is a club, and it costs all of $20 the whole year. Its more of a service to the community but you get the idea.

So honestly instead of stirring the pot here, i think you need to sit down and figure out what you want, and then figure out if that list is reasonable and realistic.

Im not trying to comedown on you, i know how you feel. I went through the same thing. Hell do some degree i still am. I still find my self occasionally searching for a better TKD school. In my heart i keep hoping that one day that awesome school will pop up. Its sad really, all it does is remind me that ill never find what i seek. So please, your younger then i am, dont waste the best years of your life searching and hopping around. Plant some roots, grow a martial family and let go of your unreasonable expectations.

 

[Tez3]

Why do so many people think your going to only need martial arts against untrained dunk punks? In reality people like that are easily avoidable you can see them as soon as you enter a bar who you should avoid. In reality real criminals do train. They train in prisons and with other criminals. As a police officer I've. Talked to many criminals I see them at the gym I see them going to dojos and now a lot go to mma gyms. I was once told by a guy "I like going to prison so I can get better training so I can be better prepared to fight you". I took that to heart and started Martial Arts classes that week. The real problems are not drunks at bars. Real criminals are always training and preparing for fights. I once pulled up to a group of 5 girls attacking a 6th girl. They were between 7 and 10 years old. I stopped them and the girl getting attacked got mad at me. She said they were her friends and they were taking turns fighting each other because there was supposed to be a big fight at school in the next few days and they wanted to be ready. I talked to the parents and none of them seemed upset by this.
So the sooner people realize there are real bad people out there that really do train the sooner you will see the value in training yourself.

Totally agree. We were talking in the club the other week about 'hard men' and my instructor who's been around a bit to say the least says that with certain people what makes them appear hard is actually them not caring what they do, they don't care if they hurt you and they don't care if they get hurt so they will happily fight anyone anywhere. In the UK there are a couple of high profile criminals who are now 'celebrities' after writing books etc and this is exactly what it is with them. It's not so much they are fit and train, it's their mindset that makes them dangerous, they don't have limits when it comes to violence. One chap we know, a fighter who may be known to some here so I shan't mention his name, was being bothered by a 'fan', the fighter punched him to the floor then took a chair and beat him unconcious with it, the guy was in a coma for 2 days. It's that 'not caring' about anything you have to watch.

 

[Guy Preston]

These guys train every day...

http://blogs.reuters.com/photographers-blog/2011/06/06/my-day-in-a-california-prison/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Great point!!!

But not only do they train every day, they also have that 'don't care' mindset Tez3 was referring to... as well as probably a fair amount of actual experience in fighting...

 

[Kaygee]

Kaygee, i have read your threads in the past and this current one and ill say this. To me it sounds as if you just dont like the traditional side of martial arts. IE the forms and no contact drills ect ect. It sounds like you love the martial arts but feel that something is missing. Your quest to find the "perfect" Dojo, is similar to what i experianced not to long ago. I was on a quest to find the "perfect" TKD school. One day it came to me, that no school in tkd would be able to satisfy the criteria i was looking for. So with a broken heart, i accepted the fact that modern combatives marital arts was for me.(notice i did not say MMA)

Maybe you have a unrealistic set of expectations for what you want out of a school. I know i did. I expected a tkd school that actually used there hands, had quality sparring out side of the Olympic rules, and practiced (frequently) all forms of takedown defense. You just strike me as someone on a similar path as me. Dont waste as much time as i did searching for that perfect school. Maybe what you want lies out side of the Traditional martial arts. Maybe what you want is a modern combatives or even mma style. Heck you could do a few seperate arts at the same time and get the same results. Dedicated boxing gyms tend to be very cheap. My boxing gym is a club, and it costs all of $20 the whole year. Its more of a service to the community but you get the idea.

So honestly instead of stirring the pot here, i think you need to sit down and figure out what you want, and then figure out if that list is reasonable and realistic.

Im not trying to comedown on you, i know how you feel. I went through the same thing. Hell do some degree i still am. I still find my self occasionally searching for a better TKD school. In my heart i keep hoping that one day that awesome school will pop up. Its sad really, all it does is remind me that ill never find what i seek. So please, your younger then i am, dont waste the best years of your life searching and hopping around. Plant some roots, grow a martial family and let go of your unreasonable expectations.

<3

 

[Flying Crane]

they don't care if they hurt you and they don't care if they get hurt
...

It's that 'not caring' about anything you have to watch.

That's kinda the definition of a sociopath. Yes, they do exist.

I don't believe you need to become a sociopath in order to defend yourself against one. But sure, they are a real hazard if you ever encounter one.

 

[Carol]

Great point!!!

But not only do they train every day, they also have that 'don't care' mindset Tez3 was referring to... as well as probably a fair amount of actual experience in fighting...

Absolutely. The blog also had this quote:

A rhythmic shouting cadence came from a building next to the exercise yard.


Our guide explained that gang members in jail viewed themselves as soldiers. They trained to be ready to fight at any time – with prison officers, other prisoners, upon their eventual release.


Even when they weren’t allowed out to exercise, they would work out together in their cells. One guy would shout through his cell bars, out to the echoing hallways, to set the pace as the other inmates would do push-ups in their tiny cells.

The most dangerous person out there is the person who has nothing to lose.

 

[Tez3]

That's kinda the definition of a sociopath. Yes, they do exist.

I don't believe you need to become a sociopath in order to defend yourself against one. But sure, they are a real hazard if you ever encounter one.

I don't think I said you had to become one to defend yourself I was expanding on the mistaken idea that you are only going to be attacked by untrained idiots taking wild swings at you.
They certainly do exist and while I wouldn't say they are becoming more numerous that mindset is certainly expanding, it's partner with the 'me' thin, where selfishness is peoples only concern.

 

[Flying Crane]

I don't think I said you had to become one to defend yourself I was expanding on the mistaken idea that you are only going to be attacked by untrained idiots taking wild swings at you.
They certainly do exist and while I wouldn't say they are becoming more numerous that mindset is certainly expanding, it's partner with the 'me' thin, where selfishness is peoples only concern.

I didn't mean to imply you were saying you need to become one in order to defend against one.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't think I said you had to become one to defend yourself I was expanding on the mistaken idea that you are only going to be attacked by untrained idiots taking wild swings at you.
They certainly do exist and while I wouldn't say they are becoming more numerous that mindset is certainly expanding, it's partner with the 'me' thin, where selfishness is peoples only concern.

I can't remember the last time anyone - trained, untrained, drunk, stoned, crazy or just plain pissed off at the world - took the sort of "wild swing" at me that people seem to assume are all we need to deal with. Tweaker last week threw a roundhouse kick at me last week. Not the best, about what I'd expect from one of our mid-level colored belts, but it had good power. No, it didn't land. No, he didn't enjoy the results of the kick. No, I don't think it's reasonable to think that all we have to deal with are "untrained idiots taking wild swings". As others have said, most people have been in fights, or seen enough fights, to have a little idea of what they want to do.