Muscle Memory

Bruce7

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I never thought their could be a down side to muscle memory.
( trained 12 years before quitting)After 3 decades of not training in MA, I have started training again.
Everything came back quickly. Except the round kick, it has been a week and my body has finally figure out how to do it correctly. When I train years ages ago I could do round kicks well, but I never practice the round kick at home. I practice the front snap kick and side kick at home everyday.
Now my round kicks have no power and are ugly. My hip position is wrong the timing of the kick is wrong.
I know what I am doing wrong, but the body is not following my instruction.
I think the reason it has taken a week for my body to figure it out is , when I was young the full chamber side kick was my main weapon so I practice every chance I got, so when I try a round kick now my brain thinks side kick.
Lesson learn from this is not only practice both sides equally, but practice all your kicks equally.
Someone who likes round kicks may not practice side kicks enough, etc.

Example: It is hard not to practice one combination over another.
Another example: when I turn to do a form my body automatically wants to down block. It can be a real fight not to do that down block.

How I fixed the round kick.
For some reason doing a half chamber side kick, then the round kick felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Next I tried a snap kick, then a round kick it felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Then I started do round kick from cat stance. I can now do a round kick correctly now.
I just figured this out so as I walk around the house, I practicing round kicks afraid my body will forget again.

Please give your opinion muscle memory.
 

skribs

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I never thought their could be a down side to muscle memory.
( trained 12 years before quitting)After 3 decades of not training in MA, I have started training again.
Everything came back quickly. Except the round kick, it has been a week and my body has finally figure out how to do it correctly. When I train years ages ago I could do round kicks well, but I never practice the round kick at home. I practice the front snap kick and side kick at home everyday.
Now my round kicks have no power and are ugly. My hip position is wrong the timing of the kick is wrong.
I know what I am doing wrong, but the body is not following my instruction.
I think the reason it has taken a week for my body to figure it out is , when I was young the full chamber side kick was my main weapon so I practice every chance I got, so when I try a round kick now my brain thinks side kick.
Lesson learn from this is not only practice both sides equally, but practice all your kicks equally.
Someone who likes round kicks may not practice side kicks enough, etc.

Example: It is hard not to practice one combination over another.
Another example: when I turn to do a form my body automatically wants to down block. It can be a real fight not to do that down block.

How I fixed the round kick.
For some reason doing a half chamber side kick, then the round kick felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Next I tried a snap kick, then a round kick it felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Then I started do round kick from cat stance. I can now do a round kick correctly now.
I just figured this out so as I walk around the house, I practicing round kicks afraid my body will forget again.

Please give your opinion muscle memory.

This is the reason for the saying "practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent." One thing I tell the green and blue belts is that they can't just practice the white belt version of their techniques. If all they do is the same motion and make it faster and stronger, that's not enough. You have to learn more about the technique and mindfully practice those additions in order to commit the new details to muscle memory.

This is also why I am an advocate of eliminating bad habits right away. (Which in theory is great, but sometimes you just gotta let people work out the kinks over time).
 
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Bruce7

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I don't have much practising experience. But i'm afraid your only way is: Hard Work.
Welcome to MartialTalk. Thank you for your post. I find Muscle Memory interesting, how doing something many times with your muscles over time will produce a memory in your brain so strong you can do that thing without thinking about it. Threw your Hard Work have you experienced this?
 
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One of the reasons i just do front kicks and default to vertical punches now.

My round kick is more me straightening my leg and hitting you with the shin- toes. I dont really use the kick out energy if i remember rightly.

I think i have just practiced the round kick badly at home on a bag instead of not doing it enough. :p
 
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Bruce7

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One of the reasons i just do front kicks and default to vertical punches now.

My round kick is more me straightening my leg and hitting you with the shin- toes. I dont really use the kick out energy if i remember rightly.

I think i have just practiced the round kick badly at home on a bag instead of not doing it enough. :p

When I was younger I did not use the round kick much. I like you prefer punching to the face than kicking
I don't like to kick high, because you lose power and leave yourself more open.
Doing a round kick is not that hard to learn. The hard part is bring the knee up and around fast and timing the release of the snap to get power is the hard part.
Most people release the snap before the knee is fully around and lose power before hitting the target.

The kick you described sounded more like a half chambered side kick.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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One of the reasons i just do front kicks and default to vertical punches now.

My round kick is more me straightening my leg and hitting you with the shin- toes. I dont really use the kick out energy if i remember rightly.

I think i have just practiced the round kick badly at home on a bag instead of not doing it enough. :p
If you head to a dojo and get some instruction, that might help ;)
 
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The kick you described sounded more like a half chambered side kick.

Its something, it works all right on the bag though. :p


Since its been brought up, i shouldn't feel a grinding in my hip when i do any motion similar to that for a proper roundhouse should i? I get a grinding feel if i dont do it right.
 
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Bruce7

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Its something, it works all right on the bag though. :p


Since its been brought up, i shouldn't feel a grinding in my hip when i do any motion similar to that for a proper roundhouse should i? I get a grinding feel if i dont do it right.

I am not a doctor, but If I felt grinding in my hip when I kicked, I would stop kicking and see a doctor.
I am in my 60's and have never felt grinding in my hip. You should really see a doctor about your hip.
 

JR 137

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I was in much the same boat as you...

I took almost 15 years off - grad school lead to dating my now wife and a career, marriage lead to kids; life just got in the way.

Returning 15 years later was pretty interesting. I joined a dojo in an organization that is about 90% the same syllabus. I was honestly shocked at how much I retained, technique-wise and memory-wise (kata, standardized stuff). I went into auto-pilot and just did the stuff without much thought. The first 2-3 months were just getting the rust out. Almost 4 years later, Im better than I was in my mid-20s. Everythings better, except flexibility and recovery :)

Give it a few months, and hopefully youll feel like you never left, for better or for worse ;)
 

skribs

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I was in much the same boat as you...

I took almost 15 years off - grad school lead to dating my now wife and a career, marriage lead to kids; life just got in the way.

Returning 15 years later was pretty interesting. I joined a dojo in an organization that is about 90% the same syllabus. I was honestly shocked at how much I retained, technique-wise and memory-wise (kata, standardized stuff). I went into auto-pilot and just did the stuff without much thought. The first 2-3 months were just getting the rust out. Almost 4 years later, Im better than I was in my mid-20s. Everythings better, except flexibility and recovery :)

Give it a few months, and hopefully youll feel like you never left, for better or for worse ;)

What I gather from this is that dating and marriage get in the way of martial arts.
 

JR 137

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What I gather from this is that dating and marriage get in the way of martial arts.
Just dont use it as an excuse if youre single and live in your parents basement ;)

Not you specifically, just general advice.
 

dvcochran

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I never thought their could be a down side to muscle memory.
( trained 12 years before quitting)After 3 decades of not training in MA, I have started training again.
Everything came back quickly. Except the round kick, it has been a week and my body has finally figure out how to do it correctly. When I train years ages ago I could do round kicks well, but I never practice the round kick at home. I practice the front snap kick and side kick at home everyday.
Now my round kicks have no power and are ugly. My hip position is wrong the timing of the kick is wrong.
I know what I am doing wrong, but the body is not following my instruction.
I think the reason it has taken a week for my body to figure it out is , when I was young the full chamber side kick was my main weapon so I practice every chance I got, so when I try a round kick now my brain thinks side kick.
Lesson learn from this is not only practice both sides equally, but practice all your kicks equally.
Someone who likes round kicks may not practice side kicks enough, etc.

Example: It is hard not to practice one combination over another.
Another example: when I turn to do a form my body automatically wants to down block. It can be a real fight not to do that down block.

How I fixed the round kick.
For some reason doing a half chamber side kick, then the round kick felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Next I tried a snap kick, then a round kick it felt and looked right, I did a lot of them.
Then I started do round kick from cat stance. I can now do a round kick correctly now.
I just figured this out so as I walk around the house, I practicing round kicks afraid my body will forget again.

Please give your opinion muscle memory.

Muscle memory is definitely real. Just curious, from what you describe I wonder where your foot pivot is relative to your round kick. I have seen a lot of flexible people who could kick with the kicking leg in the right position/rotation but pivot their standing leg little if at all. Could this be part of the reversion back to a front kick?
 

pdg

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I don't like to kick high, because you lose power and leave yourself more open

Depends really.

I can kick much harder and with better form at chest-head height than waist height.

Faster too.

And low (below waist) turning kick, forget it - I might as well make a face at them...
 
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Awesome! @Rat what style did you decide on? Is it somewhere you can go regularly, or are you going the seminar/training once a month route?

I haven't specifically gone back to anything yet. Chances being its going to be going back to a TKD or one of the more seminar things i have found. I have compiled some of the places im interested in around me and more one off learning things i have found. Everything's halted until after winter though. :p
 

JR 137

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I think the person being recommended to visit a dojo is not the op...
I missed that. Thought he was quoting part of the OP.

Edit: Yup, I was wrong, as evidenced by a post or two above this one.
 

JR 137

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Awesome! @Rat what style did you decide on? Is it somewhere you can go regularly, or are you going the seminar/training once a month route?
I got all confused. I thought you were quoting the original post, not a post down the thread. My bad.
 
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