Is it normal that you have to sign on for 12 months?

[JR 137]

There are ways to get out of the contract if things don't work out. Medical clauses, moving away more than a certain mile radius, loss of employment, change in salary, etc. Laws vary depending on where you are. They may choose to ignore the laws (or act like they don't exist), but laws are there. I've heard NYS law stipulates they can't force you to pay more than a set percentage for services that weren't rendered, regardless of what the contract stipulates. That means they can only legally hold you responsible for a few months (or a set amount of money) if you decide to end the commitment, regardless of what the contract says.

If you're that unsure about signing up long term, look up your local laws. Also ask what the ways out of the contract are.

As the consumer (in this case, the student), I hate contracts. Businesses benefit from them, in good ways and bad.

In my area, most of the full time schools (where it's the owner's full time job) have contracts, whereas the part time schools (where the owner has a day job) often don't have contracts and paying per class is an option. A general rule of thumb here is the bigger places are contract based, and the small places aren't. The smaller places are harder to find because they don't advertise the same ways, have big buildings in highly visible locations, etc.

 

[oftheherd1]

When I began learning TKD on the mid-60s, we paid by the month. I was shocked in the 80s and 90s to learn places were going with monthly contracts. Nice business practice for the owner/teacher. You pay for a BB, or for a year, by contract. Many schools would then sell the contract to a bank or other financial institution. If you stayed for a year, or until you attained BB, they had charged what they thought was OK for that amount of instruction. If you quit at any time, the school didn't have the hassle of making you pay the remainder of the contract, the financial institution did.

I have been pleased to see many schools going back to monthly fees. It was what I paid in the 80s, and what I did at the club where I taught.

I am not saying a contract is bad if the instruction is good, but the concern of not continuing for whatever reason, makes that a worry for sure.

 

[oftheherd1]

There are ways to get out of the contract if things don't work out. Medical clauses, moving away more than a certain mile radius, loss of employment, change in salary, etc. Laws vary depending on where you are. They may choose to ignore the laws (or act like they don't exist), but laws are there. I've heard NYS law stipulates they can't force you to pay more than a set percentage for services that weren't rendered, regardless of what the contract stipulates. That means they can only legally hold you responsible for a few months (or a set amount of money) if you decide to end the commitment, regardless of what the contract says.

If you're that unsure about signing up long term, look up your local laws. Also ask what the ways out of the contract are.

As the consumer (in this case, the student), I hate contracts. Businesses benefit from them, in good ways and bad.

In my area, most of the full time schools (where it's the owner's full time job) have contracts, whereas the part time schools (where the owner has a day job) often don't have contracts and paying per class is an option. A general rule of thumb here is the bigger places are contract based, and the small places aren't. The smaller places are harder to find because they don't advertise the same ways, have big buildings in highly visible locations, etc.

I don't think that is entirely true. I only show one site, Getting Out of a Contract - Lawyers.com because that happens to agree with all I have ever heard concerning contracts. If they were not always enforceable under normal circumstances, neither side could be held accountable if they decided to violate the contract on a whim, or with prior intent to get what they could and quit. Note that the exceptions are usually referring to egregious requirements in a contract.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

what?! where i live they all offer only 1 (ONE!!!!) free lesson!
i doubt that you can just come back a few times.

just man up and make your choice and deal with the consequences whatever they are. If that's all their is in your area you have to decide if you want it or not. If not move on do something else. Strangers on the Internet will not be able to help. Make your own choice see that happens. That's how life in any area works

 

[Dirty Dog]

but what if i simply cannot decide after the trial lesson? i mean why is it only 1 lesson?

What if you actually got off your *** and took that one lesson?

that's like saying you can test drive a car 5 minutes and then you have to decide.

Ummmm... I'm guessing you don't know any more about car buying than you do MA training...
Because that's pretty much how it works.
Nobody is going to say "Here, take this car and drive it for as long as you like" before you buy it.
You're going to get a short test drive (and on high-end cars, you might not be driving the actual car you're thinking of buying) and you make a decision to buy the car. At which point you're obliged to make regular payments, generally for a lot more than one year...

Where did I put those #facepalm memes?

 

[kehcorpz]

I am simply scared of losing money and also getting upset every time I think about it.

No you don't pay in advance.

I simply cannot afford trying out various different MAs and then ending up with many contracts.

 

[Ironbear24]

I am simply scared of losing money and also getting upset every time I think about it.

No you don't pay in advance.

I simply cannot afford trying out various different MAs and then ending up with many contracts.

Relax. Go there and talk to students about how much they like the place. Look online for reviews on the place. Then pick one you like the most.

 

[geezer]

I understand where you are coming from, but from a customer's point of view if you can only attend 1 of those 3 classes each week, and yet are paying the same amount as someone who attends all 3 classes a week, chances are you will feel a little slighted and feel you aren't getting your money's worth. After all, you may very well want to do all 3 classes but can't due to your work schedule, or family commitments. In that situation I would probably not bother as the amount of training I'm getting doesn't equal the amount I'm paying. Also, in the school where I train there are a total of 15 hours available training in various disciplines, so imagine if they did a monthly subscription model, and you had one person who could only attend a single hour session a week, paying the same amount of money as someone who can attend all 15 hours.

You make good points. The way our group handles it, if a student can only make one time a week, we cut the fee 30%. If a student has to miss an extended period of classes, (two weeks or more) due to health, travel, family commitments, etc. they can arrange in advance to put their training on "hold" so they don't lose the time paid for.

Now my son attends a larger, more commercial TKD school across town in a pricey neighborhood. Fees are well over $100. But the instructor cuts us a discount since we have a long drive (past several other schools) to get there. But we attend because we like the instructor and the school. Price and location are secondary concerns for me.

Like most commercial operators here, he takes our credit card number and payment is deducted automatically from my bank account whether my son makes it to class or not. And my son has missed a lot of classes. And, consequently failed his last test for promotion (IMO that in itself was a valuable lesson for my son). You get out of it what you put into it.

BTW I don't begrudge paying even when my son misses class. Unlike me, that instructor makes his living off his school. He works hard to keep the place going and his bills come due every month whether we show up or not.

It really boils down to what you are comfortable with. It sounds like your school has a system in place that works well for you!

 

[pgsmith]

I am simply scared of losing money and also getting upset every time I think about it.

No you don't pay in advance.

I simply cannot afford trying out various different MAs and then ending up with many contracts.

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine ... Don't go. You are obviously working very diligently to find barriers to actually attending any classes. If you're looking that hard for excuses to not go, then you will never be successful. You've come up with a half dozen excuses for not attending a martial arts class, and haven't even so much as sampled a single lesson.

If you decide that you DO want to learn a martial art, here are some questions for you. How do you know that there aren't other options in your area? I've not noticed that you asked if anyone knew of anything where you live. Also, what exactly is it that you want out of martial arts? If you're looking for a large and well equipped dojo that produces competition champions, then you're most likely going to have to shell out some serious money on contract because that's someone's livelihood and they can't afford to throw time and money away. If you're looking for a traditional martial arts club, chances are good that they don't even advertise, so you probably won't even know they're there.

Figure out what you want. Go out and sample what you can find, then come back here and ask questions. I can almost guarantee they'll be much different questions than the ones you're asking now.

 

[Ironbear24]

Since you asked for opinions, here's mine ... Don't go. You are obviously working very diligently to find barriers to actually attending any classes. If you're looking that hard for excuses to not go, then you will never be successful. You've come up with a half dozen excuses for not attending a martial arts class, and haven't even so much as sampled a single lesson.

If you decide that you DO want to learn a martial art, here are some questions for you. How do you know that there aren't other options in your area? I've not noticed that you asked if anyone knew of anything where you live. Also, what exactly is it that you want out of martial arts? If you're looking for a large and well equipped dojo that produces competition champions, then you're most likely going to have to shell out some serious money on contract because that's someone's livelihood and they can't afford to throw time and money away. If you're looking for a traditional martial arts club, chances are good that they don't even advertise, so you probably won't even know they're there.

Figure out what you want. Go out and sample what you can find, then come back here and ask questions. I can almost guarantee they'll be much different questions than the ones you're asking now.

He has said he is too weak. That is no excuse, martial arts can make him stronger.

Said he is too unhealthy, martial arts can help make him healthier.

Said he worries about training wrong, martial arts instructors can correct his errors.

If you are defeating yourself all the time then everyone else will defeat you as well. You wanted to take martial arts to deal with fear of being attacked because "my country is going through stuff."

It sounds to me like you have a fear of trying and if that is the case you have to get over that. As long as you have this fear of trying you will never take that most important step which is the first step.

 

[Flying Crane]

I am simply scared of losing money and also getting upset every time I think about it.

No you don't pay in advance.

I simply cannot afford trying out various different MAs and then ending up with many contracts.

You are not cut out for this. Go find something else to do

 

[Flying Crane]

He has said he is too weak. That is no excuse, martial arts can make him stronger.

Said he is too unhealthy, martial arts can help make him healthier.

Said he worries about training wrong, martial arts instructors can correct his errors.

If you are defeating yourself all the time then everyone else will defeat you as well. You wanted to take martial arts to deal with fear of being attacked because "my country is going through stuff."

It sounds to me like you have a fear of trying and if that is the case you have to get over that. As long as you have this fear of trying you will never take that most important step which is the first step.

This fellow is afraid of merely being alive.

 

[Ironbear24]

This fellow is afraid of merely being alive.

Then he needs a therapist not a sifu. He may be lucky and find both.

 

[WaterGal]

Then he needs a therapist not a sifu. He may be lucky and find both.

As long as he doesn't expect his martial arts teacher to also be his therapist. Those people are the ******** worst. If you need someone's advice on what to do with your life problems, pay a professional counselor or talk to a priest or something, don't expect your martial arts teacher to stay after classes every week to talk to you about your problems. </rant>

 

[Ironbear24]

As long as he doesn't expect his martial arts teacher to also be his therapist. Those people are the ******** worst. If you need someone's advice on what to do with your life problems, pay a professional counselor or talk to a priest or something, don't expect your martial arts teacher to stay after classes every week to talk to you about your problems. </rant>

But Mr.miyagi, if Hollywood has taught us anything the old Asian man can fix all of your problems so long as you put in effort to fix yourself.

(Warning. The above comment was sarcasm and bit designed to be taken seriously.)

 

[WaterGal]

I mean what if after 2 months you notice that this stuff doesn't work for you or that your body cannot handle it?

In a lot of places, if you have to stop your training because of a medical problem (your body legitimately can't handle it), the gym/studio/school is legally obligated to let you pause or cancel whatever contract you have with them.

Also, you're not going to have a good a sense of whether "this stuff works for you" after only 2 months. That's barely any time at all. It's like taking one semester of French class in high school and going "well, I'm not fluent yet, so clearly French doesn't work for me".

I do think that, if a school only offers an annual contract, they ought to let you do some kind of trial membership first, to try out classes for a few weeks and see how you like it. It's really both in their and your interest, IMO.

 

[marques]

In Portugal it is paid each month, free trial(s). (Don't ask a Portuguese money to try!) Like ~€30/month... Not sure how is it now.

In France they also try the one year contract. Monthly, when possible, is much more expensive. (So I subscribed near the end of the 'academic' year, like a 3 months trial (for the price of 1-2!. Saying I will move after the summer in case they insist for 12 months). Like €300-500/year, €80-100/month (Paris Area). €20/class! Usually no free trial. (In France, 'if it is free, it should be bad'). Judo almost free in small towns. But Judo is always good there.

In the UK I have seen payment each class! Any commitment. Any wordless medical visit required. Just walk in! And quite fair monthly tariffs. In fact a club asked me 3 months contract, bank account... At the end I paid 1 month in money. Trial class may be free or not.

 

[Tortoise]

In Portugal it is paid each month, free trial(s). (Don't ask a Portuguese money to try!) Like ~€30/month... Not sure how is it now.

In France they also try the one year contract. Monthly, when possible, is much more expensive. (So I subscribed near the end of the 'academic' year, like a 3 months trial (for the price of 1-2!. Saying I will move after the summer in case they insist for 12 months). Like €300-500/year, €80-100/month (Paris Area). €20/class! Usually no free trial. (In France, 'if it is free, it should be bad'). Judo almost free in small towns. But Judo is always good there.

In the UK I have seen payment each class! Any commitment. Any wordless medical visit required. Just walk in! And quite fair monthly tariffs. In fact a club asked me 3 months contract, bank account... At the end I paid 1 month in money. Trial class may be free or not.

This seems to be common practice, at least where I live. All the stuff I checked out online was similar.
They all want you to be a member for 12 months minimum. One dojo explained this by saying that learing
a MA takes time. Great justification....

I mean what if after 2 months you notice that this stuff doesn't work for you or that your body cannot handle it?
Then you have to pay the entire 12 months. Imo this is not fair and not customer-friendly. But since they all do
it they obviously think that it doesn't matter cause people who are desperate enough to want to learn self-defense
will not be hindered by this, which is probably true. I mean somebody who wants to learn self-defense already has
his own personal reasons and he will probably not back down cause he has to sign on for 12 months.

But for me it's a big problem. It's a huge risk. You not only risk losing a lot of money cause the monthly fees are already
pretty high but if you really had to leave you'd also be very upset cause you still have to pay for the rest of the time.

Imagine you sign on for 12 months and then realize this stuff isn't for you then you probably won't dare to try other stuff
cause it's simply too risky. Imagine 1 year costs you 500$ total. Then how many different things would you be willing to try
out? How much money would you basically be willing to lose? What if you try 4 different MAs and they all don't work and
then you basically threw 2000$ in the toilet? Wouldn't this make you really angry? It would make me angry and then I'd
get upset every single time I think about it and this would also be really unhealthy.

In NH, it is illegal to require year long contracts for martial arts schools.

If you are interested in the school, state your concerns to the owner or manager and see if you can work something out.

 

[Tames D]

Wait, did you say you would have to pay $500 a year in advance? Most schools around here are at least $100 a month, some a lot more. That's $1200 a year. If I could save $700 by paying a year in advance, I'd definitely go for it. Don't like the business model, but would love the savings.

BTW, my standard fee is now $90 a month, but if you pay for three months at a time I drop it to $80, or $240 total. I only push that because I hate to keep asking for dues all the time and it's nice to know in advance that you can make your rent.

You know I actually get together with my senior students and lay out the expenses and we agree on the rates. More like a club than a business, I'm afraid. We even give discounts to hardship cases. And to the guy that dives 35 miles each way to get to class. Dropped his rate $30 a month to help with gas. Just seemed fair.

... no wonder I never make any profit. Guess I better keep the day job. Of course, they don't pay me much there either. I'm a high school teacher. In Arizona.

What kind of discount can I get driving from Los Angeles 3 times a week

 

[geezer]

What kind of discount can I get driving from Los Angeles 3 times a week

For that distance, I'd have to pay you about $200 a month!

But the reality is that nobody comes from LA to Phoenix for anything ...except maybe lower taxes.