Internal Power Anyone?

[O'Malley]

Well I did too in my aikido class when our sandan repeatedly threw me across the room.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Then go train with him! Nothing is better than feeling content!

I, on the contrary to your (solitary) sandan experience, felt many teachers in Asia over many years. I also did extensive research, in the Original Chinese. And so have Liu Kangyi.

What have you done?

Stay content!

 

[Juany118]

The difference is that I am not only "describing." As I said, and say again, I have personal, hands-on, experience.

aikido theory might be similar, or even identical, but that is just theory. You can explain the same phenomenon differently or similarly, but what I want to tell you here, based on EXPERINCE (and not something I read, or watched on YouTube and so on), is that this phenomenon exists. There is such a thing as internal power. How do I know? Because I felt it!

What I am saying though is I experienced it in Aikido and even though Sensei's describe Aikido the same way you describe what you have experienced, if you remove the rhetoric, go into "Mr. Spock" or "Sherlock" mode, and analyse at what happens critically, you see it's physics and biomechanics.

In short before these sciences were understood people looked for a way to quantify what they experienced. They came up with Ki in this case. However as science improved we become capable of quantifying things in a more accurate way.

Now you don't have to look at things critically and seek what can be proven with independent and verifiable evidence. You can take what your teacher says as gospel and go with it. That isn't me though, I also look for proof beyond my own personal beliefs to support a conclusion based on experience.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

I also look for proof beyond my own personal beliefs to support a conclusion based on experience.

Really? why don't you feel it first?

I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?

So, again, theory--sure, there is theory, and you are invited to articulate your own. If you like aikido's theory, well, that's fine with me. And again, I and the rest of Liu's students have only a fragmentary understand his theory. But we are all experienced martial artists, people who trained in different styles and experienced different masters. Yet we all agree that Liu's ability is unique.

After analysis of dozens, if not hundreds of ancient manuals, and after interviewing dozens of masters Liu decided to call his ability internal power, or more precisely "internal reactive power". That is, his extensive research makes him believe that it is exactly his ability that the ancients called "internal power". I think he has the authority to make such a claim.

If you want to give a different name to his ability, well, I don't mind, and i guess he won't mind either.

Come to Taipei and feel it!

 

[O'Malley]

It would actually be great if you had a video of Mr Liu.

I think your point would be clearer as we would have concrete examples of what he is doing.

 

[Juany118]

Really? why don't you feel it first?

I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?

So, again, theory--sure, there is theory, and you are invited to articulate your own. If you like aikido's theory, well, that's fine with me. And again, I and the rest of Liu's students have only a fragmentary understand his theory. But we are all experienced martial artists, people who trained in different styles and experienced different masters. Yet we all agree that Liu's ability is unique.

After analysis of dozens, if not hundreds of ancient manuals, and after interviewing dozens of masters Liu decided to call his ability internal power, or more precisely "internal reactive power". That is, his extensive research makes him believe that it is exactly his ability that the ancients called "internal power". I think he has the authority to make such a claim.

If you want to give a different name to his ability, well, I don't mind, and i guess he won't mind either.

Come to Taipei and feel it!

Well all you feel "on your own" is that something functioned. Example the Aikido throw I noted previously "functions". Now a Sensei may use the Ki explanation but my brain is wired to confirm... Let's say to "trust but verify.". Well when I verify that Ki explanation I find it is not verified and instead discover it is physics and biomechanics.

The same would be said for dantian breathing helping to maintain clarity in combat. It isn't Ki as the ancient manuals say, it's biology. You lose clarity in combat due to a hormonal dump the ancients were not aware of. One of the causes of this is a steep rise in heart rate. Once your heart rate starts getting over 145 bpm you get tunnel vision, fine motor function and cognitive abilities start to degrade because your body starts forcing blood to the limbs you will use to fight or flight so they have more oxygen to fuel their function. This leaves less blood to go to the brain, causing the negative effects. Dantian breathing provides the body with more efficient oxygenation, thus the heart doesn't need to pump as fast, thus your brain gets to keep more oxygen for itself.

Reading the ancient manuals tells you how people without our understanding of physics, chemistry, biology and biomechanics explained their world.

Now this isn't to say that looking to "internal power" is without meaning. If one is seeking a "Way" or something to believe in I see great value in it. However when looking at something that is eminently quantifiable, in this case physical combat, I think it can actually obfuscate certain things.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

You know, the OP reminds me of the character "Daffyd Thomas" from the show "Little Britain". For anyone who hasn't watched it, Daffyd believes he is the only Gay man in the village, and despite being confronted with other gay people on a regular basis, he insists that they aren't gay and that he is the only gay in the village.

I get the feeling that the only way the OP would be satisfied would be if the only replies he got were things like "oh wow, that is incredible, your Master must be amazing. You are so lucky to find someone with the internal power!". Alas, I fear he came to the wrong place to get that sort of reaction from people who know better and have actually studied the science behind Ki.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Really? why don't you feel it first?

I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?

I'm going to invite @elder999 to come read this. I suspect he'll get quite a laugh out of it.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

"oh wow, that is incredible, your Master must be amazing

Why don't you reveal your identity, introduce your teacher, share your own experience of internal power, and invite viewers to train with him and experience first hand your teacher's ability?

Mad Dog is invited to do the same.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Why don't you reveal your identity, introduce your teacher, share your own experience of internal power, and invite viewers to train with him and experience first hand your teacher's ability?

Mad Dog is invited to do the same.

I get the feeling that even if I brought you to my instructor and he demonstrated "internal power" the same way your teacher does, you would still turn around and deny it.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

I get the feeling that even if I brought you to my instructor and he demonstrated "internal power" the same way your teacher does, you would still turn around and deny it.

Please ignore me. Introduce your teacher etc. for the benefit of all the other viewers. Why not share with them such precious information? I have.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

Please ignore me. Introduce your teacher etc. for the benefit of all the other viewers. Why not share with them such precious information? I have.

So, this is the part where I start thinking to myself "why have you made this thread?". What did you hope to achieve out of writing what you did? You seem unwilling to discuss the nature of the "internal power" you have witnessed and have disregarded pretty much everyone else here who has experienced similar phenomenon because you think your teacher is unique in his ability. So again, why have you made this thread?

 

[Dudi Nisan]

It would actually be great if you had a video of Mr Liu.

I think your point would be clearer as we would have concrete examples of what he is doing.

I am going to start a new thread soon. I'll add few videos to that thread. Don't raise you expectations though. all you'll be able to see is two men crossing hands. But then again, if you are wise you'd take it as a mark of authenticity.

Well all you feel "on your own" is that something functioned

Juany 118, you made some very good arguments. Please give me some time to answer you.

 

[jks9199]

The difference is that I am not only "describing." As I said, and say again, I have personal, hands-on, experience.

aikido theory might be similar, or even identical, but that is just theory. You can explain the same phenomenon differently or similarly, but what I want to tell you here, based on EXPERINCE (and not something I read, or watched on YouTube and so on), is that this phenomenon exists. There is such a thing as internal power. How do I know? Because I felt it!

My problem is, so far, you've done nothing but claim "I've seen it." Few of us have the ability to go to Taipei. Let me make a comparison -- I've seen invented a new color. It's right here, in the space at the end of this sentence: ______ You see it? No -- well, take my word for it. It's there. I can't help it that you can't see it...

Describe this internal power. If it can be taught -- maybe you can share an exercise that might give us a glimpse? Not seeking a full free lesson, but enough to get an understanding of what you're talking about. Or a video? Something beyond "you gotta see it to believe it."

 

[Dudi Nisan]

you've done nothing but claim "I've seen it

Really? for you a straightforward introduction and invitation is nothing? What can you do with my explanation of theory anyway? And when I did give some theory (and I will give more later on) people start arguing about the soundness of the explanation (as they see it), instead of talking about the actual phenomenon of internal power.

Well when I verify that Ki explanation I find it is not verified and instead discover it is physics and biomechanics.

It might well be. I am not a scientist. You are welcome to do the research and explain internal power with physics and biomechanics. In fact, this is our only option.

Reading the ancient manuals tells you how people without our understanding of physics, chemistry, biology and biomechanics explained their world.

That's true. The ancients had no knowledge of modern science. Nonetheless, they knew much about the generation of power, a subject they have researched with their own tools, and were especially adept at generating power while interacting with another human. As they say "gongfu is about two people"; it's not about shooting rays of qi from the palms of your hands but about generating power when coming in contact with another person. That is why Liu calls this "internal reactive power".

And, a comparative reading of ancient manuals shows that the ancients distinguished between two kinds of power. The first they alluded to with metaphors of nature, the latter they described in a very abstract way, almost like in modern physics. Now why would they make such distinction?

 

[Flying Crane]

Really? why don't you feel it first?

I am a researcher. And so, I am the last person to stop you from being critical, inquisitive etc. But even scientist first experience a phenomenon and only later try to explain it. How can you even try to explain a phenomenon you don't even know exists?

Have you heard of physics? Physicists routinely figure out the math to describe something suspected. Then they observe it, after describing it.

That is some wicked science, that it.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Have you heard of physics? Physicists routinely figure out the math to describe something suspected. Then they observe it, after describing it.

That is some wicked science, that it.

I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.

Go for it man! I am waiting too!

 

[Xue Sheng]

I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.

Go for it man! I am waiting too!

Are the books available in America or does one have to go to Taipei to get them?
What are the titles?
Can one get them in Mainland China?

我好奇

 

[Flying Crane]

I am sure I am not as intelligent as you. That is obvious. Now, Liu Kangyi published 3 books in which he explain the theory of internal power in scientific terms. so why don't you take some time off science, learn Chinese, read those books, and explain that theory to the viewers of this thread.

Go for it man! I am waiting too!

I'm not all that intelligent. I was just pointing out an error. I make plenty of them myself.

 

[Dudi Nisan]

Are the books available in America or does one have to go to Taipei to get them?
What are the titles?
Can one get them in Mainland China?

http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A134

http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A136

http://www.lionbooks.com.tw/Detail.aspx?ProductID=A-A137

I don't know if they send them to the mainland. On the other hand, I think they also have a store there. Since you speak Chinese you'll have no problems finding out.