Impoverished Area Of London Riots

[MA-Caver]

First of all, hope that our friends out by that way are alright and out of harms way. Second also hope that the riots will be contained or dispersed soon. Lastly it's happened before in many other places including here in the states. The poor rising up in anger because one of their own was injured or killed by the higher classes. Even if it's done by authorities and especially if it's done by authorities, accidental or otherwise.

LONDON (AP) — The gritty north London neighborhood of Tottenham exploded in anger Saturday night after a young man was shot to death by police.

Two patrol cars, a building and a double-decker bus were torched as rioters clashed with officers in front of the Tottenham Police Station, where people had gathered to demand "justice" for the death of a 29-year-old killed in an apparent gunfight.
"It's really bad," he said. "It looks like it's going to get very nasty ... there seems to be a lot of anger in Tottenham tonight."

Broadwater Farm is widely known in Britain following the 1985 killing of police constable Keith Blakelock, who was hacked to death during a riot there.

Tottenham is an ethnically-diverse urban area best known for its English Premier League football club Tottenham Hotspur.
http://news.yahoo.com/riot-hits-north-london-police-shooting-death-235602349.html
http://www.news24.com/World/News/Chaos-spreads-in-London-riot-20110807

I've tried to find the story about the shooting which lead to the riots. My search skills would not get me a job. But from what I picked up it's racial and that's a bad thing because it just spurs the hatred on. I mean damn, shouldn't we have outgrown it by now?

 

[billc]

hmmm...the higher classes? I think a lot more detail about the actual event is needed before things are clear.

 

[MA-Caver]

hmmm...the higher classes? I think a lot more detail about the actual event is needed before things are clear.

Police officers are paid more than the average wage-earner in a poor neighborhood, some may earn equal salaries but don't tend to live there long and move to better neighborhoods. So it's a higher class either way you cut it.

 

[billc]

Some more reporting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023254/Tottenham-riots-Double-decker-bus-set-ablaze-mob-violence-hits-London.html?ITO=1490

from the article:

Last night the Tottenham area erupted once again as more than 100 officers and specialist riot police faced crowds of more than 500 people protesting about the death of Mark Duggan, who lived on the estate and was described last week by police sources as a ‘gangster’.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023254/Tottenham-riots-Double-decker-bus-set-ablaze-mob-violence-hits-London.html#ixzz1UJOGYIQx
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Until the info. firms up all I have to say is that from what I understand of the British police, they aren't known to be trigger happy. Perhaps some of our British posters can shed some light on exactly what happened?

 

[billc]

A report on the actual incident:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8682655/Man-killed-in-shooting-incident-involving-police-officer.html

from the article:

[h=2]A policeman's life was saved by his radio last night after a gunman opened fire on him and the bullet hit the device.[/h]
Armed police immediately returned fire and Mark Duggan, 29, who was under surveillance, was shot dead in the street in north london.

The policeman, who has not been named, was wounded in the shooting and taken to hospital. But last night he was discharged.

Police sources said the dead man was a "well known gangster" who had been under surveillance by officers investigating gun crime in a pre-planned operation in Tottenhan Hale. They added that the police officer had been saved after the bullet fired at him struck his radio.

An eyewitness said that a police officer had shouted to the man to stop "a couple of times", but he had not heeded the warning.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), which has been called in to investigate, said it understood the dead male had been shot by police, adding that the officer had been shot and wounded.
An IPCC spokesman said: ''We understand the officer was shot first before the male was shot.''
He said the incident, which happened at 6.15pm tonight, had been referred to the IPCC by the Metropolitan Police professional standards department.
He said independent investigators had been deployed to the scene in Ferry Lane, Tottenham Hale.

AND FROM THE BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14423942

from the article:

A man shot dead by police in north London was a passenger in a minicab stopped during a planned operation, the police watchdog has said.
Officers stopped the car in Ferry Lane, Tottenham, on Thursday to carry out an arrest when the 29-year-old man, named locally as Mark Duggan, was shot.
Three shots were fired. A bullet was found lodged in a police radio.
A police officer was also injured in the incident, the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said.
The injured officer has since been discharged from hospital.
The incident took place in Tottenham Hale at about 18:15 BST and Mr Duggan died at the scene.

 

[Tez3]

The poor rising up, oh dear oh dear!

A man carrying a gun shot at police and was in turn shot back.
The man carrying the gun was known for taking part in gang and criminal activities. Tottenham isn't a poor part of London, Broadwater Farm is a small area in Tottenham where they had a race riot in the eighties. The man alleged to be a criminal who was shot dead was black.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14434318

Don't make more of this than there is.

 

[andy.m]

Don't make more of this than there is

Tez3

unfortunately , 'they' are , hence the riot !

 

[Tez3]

Tez3

unfortunately , 'they' are , hence the riot !

I'm sure 'they' are ( and that will get the conspiracy theorists here going lol) but I'm saying to the Americans not to read more into this than there is, it's a gun carrying criminal who was shot while the police were trying to arrest him, injuring a police officer btw and certain people, the anti police brigade, have jumped on the bandwagon and are protesting, joining in with them are the yobs who just like vandalising and throwing stuff at coppers.

this is Broadwater Farm Estate btw, an 'impoverished part of London.

 

[Jenna]

It was noisy here last night for a while. There were police helicopters above for a good few hours. Though we are far enough away to have avoided any direct trouble, I worry that this kind of orchestrated violence by Duggan's posse and the wannabe tough boys that hang on his coattails can spread outwards. I hope not. I have heard various reports of unnecessary police force and but I think that is usually crap to be frank. It is well known that the guy was well connected to the Yardies. Politically or morally correct or not, I do not care, imo, justice is done. The Met police here as well as anyone know the repercussions of unwarranted firearm discharge let alone shooting someone dead. I support the police here fwiw. It makes me angry to hear these rioters and their slightly educated mouthpieces lament their impoverished backgrounds and the social injustice they are subject to. I live in the area. I am hardly rich and but I have to work like anyone to subside these pushers and extortionists who drive around in their X5s and Range Rovers. It makes me angry. This place is better off for less of their kind. One less to cause trouble in the area I say.

 

[Tez3]

It was noisy here last night for a while. There were police helicopters above for a good few hours. Though we are far enough away to have avoided any direct trouble, I worry that this kind of orchestrated violence by Duggan's posse and the wannabe tough boys that hang on his coattails can spread outwards. I hope not. I have heard various reports of unnecessary police force and but I think that is usually crap to be frank. It is well known that the guy was well connected to the Yardies. Politically or morally correct or not, I do not care, imo, justice is done. The Met police here as well as anyone know the repercussions of unwarranted firearm discharge let alone shooting someone dead. I support the police here fwiw. It makes me angry to hear these rioters and their slightly educated mouthpieces lament their impoverished backgrounds and the social injustice they are subject to. I live in the area. I am hardly rich and but I have to work like anyone to subside these pushers and extortionists who drive around in their X5s and Range Rovers. It makes me angry. This place is better off for less of their kind. One less to cause trouble in the area I say.

Well said Jenna, it hasn't nothing to do with 'poverty' and all to do with drugs, gangs etc. It was the same up north and everyone is putting it down to the 'immigrant problem'.

 

[billc]

I always find it interesting that when someone is killed by the police, and has had a long history of criminal activity, you will here people in his neihborhood say that he wasn't a bad guy. It happens here in the states as well. The initial reporting will have interviews with the people in the neihborhood and they will all say that he may have had problems but he was a good guy. Then the guys long list of violent crime will come out and it is easy to see that the person was a violent criminal. I don't know the particulars of this guy, but it sounds the same.

 

[Sukerkin]

Sadly true, aye.

 

[granfire]

Well said Jenna, it hasn't nothing to do with 'poverty' and all to do with drugs, gangs etc. It was the same up north and everyone is putting it down to the 'immigrant problem'.

There are also a lot of groups who use situations like that to cause trouble for trouble's sake. "Hey, it's May 1st, let's go to Berlin-Kreutzberg and set cars on fire!"

 

[Jenna]

There are also a lot of groups who use situations like that to cause trouble for trouble's sake. "Hey, it's May 1st, let's go to Berlin-Kreutzberg and set cars on fire!"

Exactly! While I know times are hard and one of the local community centres was closed recently, we hear talk of impoverishment from youths whose mouths and faces are covered with brand new Adidas trackwear and zipups. We had the "anarchists" here go on the rampage earlier this morning. I am sure politicians everywhere were taking notice of their well thought through anti-government policies which included such philosophical wonders as looting the local shops. Anyway, maybe I will become an anarchist. I could do with a new TV.

 

[Archangel M]

This comment over at PoliceOne.com says it all to me:

1) Name one family member who will ever say, "Yeah, I totally think my brother/son/husband/boyfriend would shoot at a cop. He was a dirtbag." Family aftermath interviews are ridiculously predictable and serve no purpose other than to pile more people on the anti-cop bandwagon.

2) Will someone please start investigating this weird worldwide phenomenon of bullets magically appearing and flinging themselves at us and lodging themselves in our equipment? Obviously if no one shot it, then it appeared from another dimension. Maybe the media can find out who did it by interviewing more distraught family members who would never lie and hurt their chances of their pending lawsuit payday.

 

[Tez3]

this comment over at policeone.com says it all to me:

qft!

 

[MaxiMe]

Just a question to our LEO's especially the ones across the pond. Is it true or not that anytime a LEO discharges their firearm the investigators are called in?

 

[Tez3]

It's ridiculous now, the yobs are using Twitter and Facebook to meet up and go looting! Certain political groups and people are saying it's the governments fault, that it's unemployment etc that's making people riot. Yeah right. So stealing mobile phones, televisions, jewellery etc is a legitimate way of protesting?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/incitement-warning-to-twitter-users-2333930.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/home-secretary-condemns-rioting-2333748.html

"Police chiefs, politicians and community leaders condemned "opportunistic criminality" amid a fresh wave of violence. Mrs May said: "I think this is about sheer criminality.
"That is what we have seen on the streets. The violence we've seen, the looting we've seen, the thuggery we've seen - this is sheer criminality, and let's make no bones about it.
"That's why I say that these people will be brought to justice, they will be made to face the consequences of their actions and I call on all members of local communities to work with the police constructively to help the police to bring these criminals to justice."

 

[Tez3]

Just a question to our LEO's especially the ones across the pond. Is it true or not that anytime a LEO discharges their firearm the investigators are called in?

The Police Complaints Commision look into each shooting. I imagine it's the same in most countries, the shooting has to be seen to be justified...or not. I don't think routinely armed police officers in the US can shoot people without there being an enquiry afterwards.

 

[MaxiMe]

The Police Complaints Commision look into each shooting. I imagine it's the same in most countries, the shooting has to be seen to be justified...or not. I don't think routinely armed police officers in the US can shoot people without there being an enquiry afterwards.

Thanks, I thought that would be the case, but no being a LEO I figured best to check. The articles seem to be sort of stressing that point a little. If it's SOP then it's not anything out of the ordinary.