I'm sorry, but this whole "Anti-Grappling" thing horrifies me

drop bear

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Ok. On my other little bug bear I have. Using bjj for anti grapple.

Test the technique works but is this really the go to side control escape you would teach a soldier?



Side control escape but you finish in that. "ground is full of poo sobi must stand up" position.
 

drop bear

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Thumb up for guy doing the arm bar to straighten arm? I like the video.
That's it!! I challenge you to death match? This is the only way we can resolve this!!!! Hopefully I don't get banned.?cause I'm JK!

I'm just playing around, arguing is making my head hurt. Your not wrong . I don't disagree completely. I guess I just look at things in a different and slightly weirder way.

Done. I will build the flash Gordon arena. You provide the bird men.

 

Hanzou

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No offense to Karate, but Karate ain't Taiji either. But as I said in my post, I do believe there is a little more to it.

No offense taken. :)

Thanks for the critique of the video, but I never did take is all that seriously and to be honest I take very little seriously I see on YouTube.

But to stance; go after a skilled Police/Military Sanda person and you won't see a guard at all, they fight from whatever position they are in at the moment and they will not care standup, ground or anything else. Go after any good CMA person and they will not go into a guard stance, there is no time, so BJJ and MMA are not the founders of that.

Well, that's not really what I was talking about. I was talking about this stuff;



Like I said, does not make it superior, just means they don't like being on the ground. But to be honest I am not convinced that a good Qinna person could not get off the ground of break, dislocate, or injure someone that tried to keep him there either, this also is not saying it is superior to a skilled BJJ person, it is just saying they have skills to and they should not be taken lightly or look down upon because they are not BJJ. But then high level Qinna people are by far fewer than competent BJJ people. .

Is Qinna really all that different from what you see out of Jujutsu? Additionally, I went through an older Qinna book by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming, and it had no ground applications to speak of, nor much of anything to oppose a wrestler-style takedown.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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nor much of anything to oppose a wrestler-style takedown.
As I have pointed this out many times, strikers don't train those skills that's needed to "deal with" wrestlers' takedown (such as "avoid to be on the bottom"). The best they can do is to "avoid it". IMO, just to "avoid it" is far from enough.

If we put this in 3 categories:

1. avoid it (avoid take down),
2. deal with it (avoid to be on the bottom),
3. counter it (get back on top fom the bottom),

2 and 3 will require different skill set than 1 will require.
 
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Hanzou

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We are trained to not be comfortable on our backs. And that is because of punching and that the guy on top can also grapple. Which makes subs a lot harder.

But if we include punching then escapes with intensity has a new role. If you are holding me down you cant hit me as easily.

Anti grappling should aim to make you uncontrollable down there. So rather than it being some half baked notion. It becomes a change in tactics. Like for example getting that wrestling turtle and stand rather than re guard and going for subs.

Well keep in mind, when I say "comfortable on your back" I'm not saying you take a nap while someone tries to escape your guard. I'm saying you're not freaking out because you're on your back and someone is on top of you. Which frankly is an excellent skill to have.

Additionally if I'm holding you down in my guard, you shouldn't be hitting me either, since its four limbs against two. ;)
 

Kung Fu Wang

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you're not freaking out because you're on your back and someone is on top of you. Which frankly is an excellent skill to have.
I can't believe anybody would want to disagree with you on that. That statement can be considered almost as the "end of discussion".

When

- Bill Gates saw the Apple Lisa UI, he said, "I want it." Bill didn't mind to "evolve", that's why he succeeds.
- I saw the Zerox Star UI, I said, "I want it", but my IBM vice-president said, "That's not IBM (does this sound very familiar?)". IBM didn't want to "evolve" and killed my "ACE project", that's why IBM lose that battle.

Believe it or not, during that battle, one senior IBM guy made the following statement, "Those nice desktop Icons are cute, but it will hurt our IBM seriouse business image. We don't need window system (ground skill), as long as we can let our customers to type letter (kick), put up spread sheet (punch), and draw some business chart (take down), that will be all we need."
 
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drop bear

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Well keep in mind, when I say "comfortable on your back" I'm not saying you take a nap while someone tries to escape your guard. I'm saying you're not freaking out because you're on your back and someone is on top of you. Which frankly is an excellent skill to have.

Additionally if I'm holding you down in my guard, you shouldn't be hitting me either, since its four limbs against two. ;)

Either you can trust me on this or roll with punches.

But guard is not a fun place to play from.
 

Hanzou

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Either you can trust me on this or roll with punches.

But guard is not a fun place to play from.

What makes you think I don't roll with punches?

The guard IS a dominant position, which is why people have had to devise various clever ways to pass it. You're not going to break everyone's guard by smashing them in the face with punches all the time. Especially if that person is a superior grappler than you are.

Your level of "fun" depends on how good you are from that position. There's plenty of guys who are wizards from that position, and purposely would fight from that position if the situation warrants it.
 

drop bear

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What makes you think I don't roll with punches?

The guard IS a dominant position, which is why people have had to devise various clever ways to pass it. You're not going to break everyone's guard by smashing them in the face with punches all the time. Especially if that person is a superior grappler than you are.

Your level of "fun" depends on how good you are from that position. There's plenty of guys who are wizards from that position, and purposely would fight from that position if the situation warrants it.

Dominant in bjj. Not dominant in mma.
 

drop bear

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What makes you think I don't roll with punches?

The guard IS a dominant position, which is why people have had to devise various clever ways to pass it. You're not going to break everyone's guard by smashing them in the face with punches all the time. Especially if that person is a superior grappler than you are.

Your level of "fun" depends on how good you are from that position. There's plenty of guys who are wizards from that position, and purposely would fight from that position if the situation warrants it.

Coaches Corner The Role Of The Guard In MMA - Bloody Elbow
 

Hanzou

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Dominant in bjj. Not dominant in mma.

Are you saying that guys in MMA aren't subbed from guard? I would wager that more guys in MMA have been subbed in guard, than have been knocked out from GNP while in their guards.
 

drop bear

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Yeah, I've read that article before. Its worth pointing out that the modern day rules of MMA work against the guard. Despite that, I highly doubt we're going to see MMA guys stop training the guard position anytime soon.

Additionally we're talking about self defense, not MMA.

Less training in re guarding. Which is a bit different. And if you cant sub a guy in five minutes who is beating on you then that does not bode well for SD either.
 

Kwan Sau

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C'mon on....just a little bit further and we can all jump to page 15! Yahoooooooooo!
 

Hanzou

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Less training in re guarding. Which is a bit different. And if you cant sub a guy in five minutes who is beating on you then that does not bode well for SD either.

Well its pretty hard to sub a mostly naked and sweaty guy who is just as good at grappling as you are. It's additionally tough when the ref will stand you up if there's no "action" going on. Quite a bit different than a SD situation right?

That said, I think this is a good topic drop bear. I'll start a new thread about it. :)
 

Vajramusti

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C'mon on....just a little bit further and we can all jump to page 15! Yahoooooooooo!
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Xue Sheng

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Is Qinna really all that different from what you see out of Jujutsu? Additionally, I went through an older Qinna book by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming, and it had no ground applications to speak of, nor much of anything to oppose a wrestler-style takedown.


Its defense against and used for getting off of.
 

yak sao

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What makes someone a "master" of chin na, is not that they can take a technique and make it work whenever they want.
It's someone who's practiced the technique thousands of times and knows when to apply it.
This doesn't matter whether one is standing, sitting or lying on the ground.
 

Vajramusti

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Can someone with china post the 14 pages on a MMA forum?
 
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