I wish World Taekwondo didn't allow knockout kicks

tkdroamer

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You're not even making any sense anymore. Can you point to me any post in this thread which is off-topic, either by me or anyone else? If you're going to make accusations, then they should be accusations of things that actually may have happened.

I can't tell if you're trolling, or just so far divorced from reality that you're making stuff.
Your last post would be a good example. Definitely not trolling.
I am sincere when giving you advise about competing at BB level in WT sparring. If you are not certain that you are ready, you should not do it. The rules are the rules, and you should accept that.
 
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Your last post would be a good example. Definitely not trolling.
I am sincere when giving you advise about competing at BB level in WT sparring. If you are not certain that you are ready, you should not do it. The rules are the rules, and you should accept that.
This discussion is related to the relevance of this thread and the discussions taking place. That is on topic for this thread.

If you are not trolling, then we're only left with one alternative. I was going to give you an out and say you're trolling. But if you genuinely aren't and this has genuinely been what you believe....there's no point in continuing a conversation if you're not even on the same planet.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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This comment makes absolutely no sense. I'm discussing Taekwondo on a Taekwondo forum right now. If there is a better forum on MartialTalk to discuss Taekwondo competitions and our opinions of them, please let me know.

If I were to talk about boxing on a boxing forum, and they had a specific subforum for talking about competitive ring fighting, then that would make sense. But if I were to go to MartialTalk's boxing forum and talk about boxing, it wouldn't be off-topic.

You're trying to say that my post is off topic. You're the one making the wild claim here. Prove that it's off topic for this forum or give up on this talking point.
For the record, there is actually a competition forum meant for competition's of any style, here: The Competitive Edge

That said, considering you're specifically talking about TKD I see no reason why that forum would be any more right or wrong then this one-I'd only recommend that over the TKD forum if you were specifically discussing, say, knockout blows across competitions.

No idea what TKDroamer is going on about or what his point is, just thought I'd put that info in here for the future.
 

tkdroamer

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For the record, there is actually a competition forum meant for competition's of any style, here: The Competitive Edge

That said, considering you're specifically talking about TKD I see no reason why that forum would be any more right or wrong then this one-I'd only recommend that over the TKD forum if you were specifically discussing, say, knockout blows across competitions.

No idea what TKDroamer is going on about or what his point is, just thought I'd put that info in here for the future.
I am just trying to help a person that clearly appears to Not be ready for the competition at a certain level. Nothing else. All the other diatribe has just been tangential.
 

Steve

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Interesting. I get the sense today's athletes do not see it that way, but I suppose they are indirectly doing the same thing given the size of some of the player contracts.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right, though some do. I mean, the dream for many kids who get into football (for example) is to score that big NFL contract. For many, it's their family's ticket out of poverty, and the know the risks. And believe me, I don't blame them.

But for me, I don't enjoy watching people shorten their lives, even if they're doing it of their own volition. It's just not fun for me. It wasn't a conscious choice on my part. It might be different if it were a bunch of rich kids killing themselves. I mean, maybe if snorting cocaine on your dad's ferrari becomes a sport, I'd watch it. Who knows? I am not claiming to be entirely consistent with this. :)
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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I am just trying to help a person that clearly appears to Not be ready for the competition at a certain level. Nothing else. All the other diatribe has just been tangential.
He's not ready (or happy about) competition at a specific contact level. He may or may not be ready for it at a skill level though, we've got no reason to think he is. And he seems perfectly willing to admin he's not happy with the contact level-that was his first post and he's been totally consistent with stating that. I disagree, but I understand his argument and he's been very clear about his own limitations and frustrations here, which do not involve his personal skill level.
 

tkdroamer

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He's not ready (or happy about) competition at a specific contact level. He may or may not be ready for it at a skill level though, we've got no reason to think he is. And he seems perfectly willing to admin he's not happy with the contact level-that was his first post and he's been totally consistent with stating that. I disagree, but I understand his argument and he's been very clear about his own limitations and frustrations here, which do not involve his personal skill level.
I do enjoy the kicking game, and I don't like that I've gotten to the level where I have to put my long-term mental health at risk in order to participate.

I wish World Taekwondo would put player safety first in this regard. I know there are MMA fighters that switch to exclusively competing in BJJ so they can avoid CTE. I wish there were competitive options for high-level adults that did not involve a high likelihood of a KO.
This is from the OP. I feel I have 'bent over backwards' trying to suggest there are other options out there. But it keeps coming back as an effort to change the rules of an organized sport that the OP really has limited experience in and sometimes has felt like direct assaults towards me for trying to help.
I have been at this a while and never have I let one of my BB's go onto the mat unprepared. I don't know if the OP is trying to be a lone gun or what. WT at the BB level is definitely a big step. One that every competitor should prepare for or go do something else.
I have even offered to tap out of the conversation, but the OP just kept coming, so I took that as looking for advice or information. Or at least honesty.
I am not aware of any other MA's sport that has went to electronic scoring (I could be wrong). They are trying and have made more than a few changes since the inception of the sport. No one can say they are not considering player safety. It is a contact sport. I don't know how a person wanting to compete in it does not understand this.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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This is from the OP. I feel I have 'bent over backwards' trying to suggest there are other options out there. But it keeps coming back as an effort to change the rules of an organized sport that the OP really has limited experience in and sometimes has felt like direct assaults towards me for trying to help.
I have been at this a while and never have I let one of my BB's go onto the mat unprepared. I don't know if the OP is trying to be a lone gun or what. WT at the BB level is definitely a big step. One that every competitor should prepare for or go do something else.
I have even offered to tap out of the conversation, but the OP just kept coming, so I took that as looking for advice or information. Or at least honesty.
I am not aware of any other MA's sport that has went to electronic scoring (I could be wrong). They are trying and have made more than a few changes since the inception of the sport. No one can say they are not considering player safety. It is a contact sport. I don't know how a person wanting to compete in it does not understand this.
My understanding is that he does, he just wants them to move even farther towards that end. He wants to be able to compete in WT, but for WT's rules to change so that he's not risking concussions. As stated, I don't think that's needed, but it's clear what he wants, and that he understands what he's looking for. I read this all much more as him venting then looking to any of us for advice. I could be wrong, that's just how I read it.
 

tkdroamer

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My understanding is that he does, he just wants them to move even farther towards that end. He wants to be able to compete in WT, but for WT's rules to change so that he's not risking concussions. As stated, I don't think that's needed, but it's clear what he wants, and that he understands what he's looking for. I read this all much more as him venting then looking to any of us for advice. I could be wrong, that's just how I read it.
Fair enough. I guess I read it more literal since I am closer to the sport. I have to measure it from both sides.
 

WaterGal

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I wish World Taekwondo would put player safety first in this regard. I know there are MMA fighters that switch to exclusively competing in BJJ so they can avoid CTE. I wish there were competitive options for high-level adults that did not involve a high likelihood of a KO.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I feel like I've been seeing an increasing number of the smaller local TKD tournaments where I'm at offering a no/light head contact division for adults, I think because of this concern. For adults who are hobbyists and aren't trying to be internationally ranked competitors, the risk of CTE or facial injury can prevent someone from competing. So I think it's good to have a "I want to be in the Olympics" division and and a "I'm a 40-year old account who does TKD to stay fit" division.
 
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So I think it's good to have a "I want to be in the Olympics" division and and a "I'm a 40-year old account who does TKD to stay fit" division.
Even before I was a black belt, I wanted this as well.

There's also a difference between "Our school goes to competitions once a year so our students can experience it" and "90% of our class time is sparring and we do 15 tournaments a year and have a wall full of trophies."
 

Ivan

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One of the nice things about Taekwondo compared to something like boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai is that the point system is generally safer than a full contact system. And for the vast majority of demographics, World Taekwondo is a purely point system. It's only when you get to black belt as an adult that you can start knocking each other out.

I don't really like this. On the one hand, it is more realistic, and gives some validity to the internet trolls that say Taekwondo isn't realistic. But one of the things I enjoy about it is that it is relatively low-risk. I might get some bumps and bruises (especially when knocking knees), but knees heal. Brains don't. My biggest problem is that you can't do this at lower belts or ages, so you might get used to competing, and then get turned off later on when you are high enough level to go for KOs. If you were to start with Muay Thai, you would be going for knockouts much earlier in your career, and you would start training with the understanding this is where your competitions are going to be. Personally, I don't consider it worth the potential brain damage. I do enjoy the kicking game, and I don't like that I've gotten to the level where I have to put my long-term mental health at risk in order to participate.

I wish World Taekwondo would put player safety first in this regard. I know there are MMA fighters that switch to exclusively competing in BJJ so they can avoid CTE. I wish there were competitive options for high-level adults that did not involve a high likelihood of a KO.
Unfortunately, this is the nature of the sport. It's hard to face, and it's certainly not for everyone. But it's important to remember Taekwondo, is inherently a contact martial art meant for self-defense. We cannot water down martial arts and techniques for safety, as it's not a sport that is meant to be safe. Boxing, Taekwondo and all martial arts are inherently unsafe and should remain so, if they are to stick true to what they are supposed to accomplish.
 

tkdroamer

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Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I feel like I've been seeing an increasing number of the smaller local TKD tournaments where I'm at offering a no/light head contact division for adults, I think because of this concern. For adults who are hobbyists and aren't trying to be internationally ranked competitors, the risk of CTE or facial injury can prevent someone from competing. So I think it's good to have a "I want to be in the Olympics" division and and a "I'm a 40-year old account who does TKD to stay fit" division.
I had mentioned these tournaments in one of my early posts, but it seems to have gone unheard.
 
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Unfortunately, this is the nature of the sport. It's hard to face, and it's certainly not for everyone. But it's important to remember Taekwondo, is inherently a contact martial art meant for self-defense. We cannot water down martial arts and techniques for safety, as it's not a sport that is meant to be safe. Boxing, Taekwondo and all martial arts are inherently unsafe and should remain so, if they are to stick true to what they are supposed to accomplish.
For the vast majority of Taekwondo practitioners (all kids color belts, most adult color belts), this level of contact is not required.

Some arts are more safe than others. As has been mentioned numerous times, "Martial Arts are unsafe" is not an excuse to see how player safety can be improved. MMA has made rule changes in favor of player safety.
 

Ivan

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For the vast majority of Taekwondo practitioners (all kids color belts, most adult color belts), this level of contact is not required.

Some arts are more safe than others. As has been mentioned numerous times, "Martial Arts are unsafe" is not an excuse to see how player safety can be improved. MMA has made rule changes in favor of player safety.
That may be true. But player safety shouldn't take precedence over ensuring the martial art is effective and that it works for self-defence. If it did, you would get the issues that WT suffers from already. It has a soft reputation because the players are covered head to toe in protective gear, and techniques for point scoring which would be useless in real-life scenarios are encouraged. WT is not a martial art anymore, it's a game. Although knockouts are possible, they are rare. God forbid that a combat sport, remains a combat sport.
MMA has made rule changes, sure, but the majority of those rule changes were for viewer satisfaction rather than player safety.
 
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It has a soft reputation because the players are covered head to toe in protective gear, and techniques for point scoring which would be useless in real-life scenarios are encouraged. WT is not a martial art anymore, it's a game. Although knockouts are possible, they are rare. God forbid that a combat sport, remains a combat sport.
So then why not lean into it being a safer sport to practice, if KOs aren't the main aspect of the competition?
 

Ivan

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So then why not lean into it being a safer sport to practice, if KOs aren't the main aspect of the competition?
Because you can't expect a martial art to be successful if there is no inherent danger when you practice its techniques. That's why sparring and competition exist - as a rehearsal for the real thing. The more rules and safety you place during these rehearsals, the less effective your training. But if you practice or compete without having to worry about KOs, how do you expect to defend yourself from someone trying to ping your head off in a real fight?
 
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Because you can't expect a martial art to be successful if there is no inherent danger when you practice its techniques. That's why sparring and competition exist - as a rehearsal for the real thing. The more rules and safety you place during these rehearsals, the less effective your training. But if you practice or compete without having to worry about KOs, how do you expect to defend yourself from someone trying to ping your head off in a real fight?
If I can get KOs in competition, then what's the point in knowing how to defend them in a real fight?

If I go to 12 competitions and get 2 concussions, and then I get in a self-defense situation and avoid one, am I really better off?
 

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