Taekwondo - the public image - why it sucks!

[andyjeffries]

And you know this how? Hard stats, research, study? So you think the Yanks you speak of represent the bulk of Taekwondo dojang owners in the United States. I am assuming you are talking of the few people who post stuff about Taekwondo on MT, the majority of who we can't even ascertain own their own dojangs or teach Taekwondo.

To answer on RobinTKD's behalf (although I'm sure he'll be on later) : "it seems that by the way the Yanks are talking". That's what makes him think that.

I don't necessarily agree, but you Americans* do seem to have more of an issue with McDojangs over there - in the UK there are very few like this in Taekwondo. In the UK these belt-factories/pure money making ventures are more in Kickboxing and MMA and the Taekwondo (while not necessarily always of an excellent standard) is generally fairly well taught.

* It seems also that Robin's characterisation of "Yanks" offended you ("the Yanks you speak of"), but I'm sure he just means Americans. Personally I'd take no offence by being called a "Brit", but I know that Yankee means something specific, as in it refers to a subset of Americans not all of them (although outside the USA, it just is used to refer to Americans - not in a derogatory sense, just in a slang sense).

 

[Archtkd]

To answer on RobinTKD's behalf (although I'm sure he'll be on later) : "it seems that by the way the Yanks are talking". That's what makes him think that.

I don't necessarily agree, but you Americans* do seem to have more of an issue with McDojangs over there - in the UK there are very few like this in Taekwondo. In the UK these belt-factories/pure money making ventures are more in Kickboxing and MMA and the Taekwondo (while not necessarily always of an excellent standard) is generally fairly well taught.

* It seems also that Robin's characterisation of "Yanks" offended you ("the Yanks you speak of"), but I'm sure he just means Americans. Personally I'd take no offence by being called a "Brit", but I know that Yankee means something specific, as in it refers to a subset of Americans not all of them (although outside the USA, it just is used to refer to Americans - not in a derogatory sense, just in a slang sense).

Oh no. The Yank reference didn't offend. I was more concerned about the generalization of U.S Taekwondo dojangs, and the idea that the posters on MT represent the entire Taekwondo sector in the U.S.

There's lots of noise on MT boards coming from people who don't own or operate their own Taekwondo dojangs and others who don't teach Taekwondo, but they make it seem like every Taekwondo dojang in the U.S is a belt mill. A number of the loudest critics here have no basic understanding of how to run a business/club/association leave alone a Taekwondo dojang. I also see some people from countries where governments subsidize private dojangs writing here, without having a basic understanding of the American , cultural, social, political and economic landscape.

For the most part, if you operate a Taekwondo dojang here in the U.S, you are on your own irrespective of association or affiliation. You raise your own capital to build or build-out your own dojang. You negotiate rent, insurance, etc. on your own., etc. You are responsible for ensuring your dojang meets the minimum city building and safety codes. You face the risks of lawsuits, disaster, etc, on your own. You recruit members on your own. You appoint or hire and fire instructors on your own and take the risks of doing so on your own. The Kukkiwon, associations, federations, and the loudest babblers on MT don't help you with any of that stuff.

 

[Markku P]

There's lots of noise on MT boards coming from people who don't own or operate their own Taekwondo dojangs and others who don't teach Taekwondo, but they make it seem like every Taekwondo dojang in the U.S is a belt mill. A number of the loudest critics here have no basic understanding of how to run a business/club/association leave alone a Taekwondo dojang. I also see some people from countries where governments subsidize private dojangs writing here, without having a basic understanding of the American , cultural, social, political and economic landscape.

USA is such a big country and you will find so many different Taekwondo schools. Some good, some bad like everywhere else. I would be very foolish to assume that every school is after the money or they are just "belt factories" ( I have even visited some very good ATA-Taekwondo schools over there :angel: )

/Markku P.

 

[RobinTKD]

Oh no. The Yank reference didn't offend. I was more concerned about the generalization of U.S Taekwondo dojangs, and the idea that the posters on MT represent the entire Taekwondo sector in the U.S.

There's lots of noise on MT boards coming from people who don't own or operate their own Taekwondo dojangs and others who don't teach Taekwondo, but they make it seem like every Taekwondo dojang in the U.S is a belt mill. A number of the loudest critics here have no basic understanding of how to run a business/club/association leave alone a Taekwondo dojang. I also see some people from countries where governments subsidize private dojangs writing here, without having a basic understanding of the American , cultural, social, political and economic landscape.

For the most part, if you operate a Taekwondo dojang here in the U.S, you are on your own irrespective of association or affiliation. You raise your own capital to build or build-out your own dojang. You negotiate rent, insurance, etc. on your own., etc. You are responsible for ensuring your dojang meets the minimum city building and safety codes. You face the risks of lawsuits, disaster, etc, on your own. You recruit members on your own. You appoint or hire and fire instructors on your own and take the risks of doing so on your own. The Kukkiwon, associations, federations, and the loudest babblers on MT don't help you with any of that stuff.

A very good reply! I'm aware that MT does't represent the entirety of American Dojangs, just as Mr Jefferies, Tez and I don't represent the entirety of UK Dojangs, maybe I should rephrase what I said slightly to say that it seems that one of the main problems discussed by american practitioners is belt factories and the trouble they can cause, where as over here in Blighty, it doesn't seem to be on anyone's mind at all really!

Actually, now you say it - I always have in mind that the TAGB is the biggest player and the gorilla in the room when it comes to marketing themselves, but actually they seem to have been a bit quiet in recent years...

I'd still agree that they are the biggest player in ITF Taekwon Do in the UK, and there is a club in the same town that i practice, we have about 50-60 practitioners of various levels with (as of july this year) four 1st Dans, and one 2nd Dan, the TAGB on the other hand has 6 regular practitioners all of which are black belts from 1st-5th Dan, having trained with both, there is no difference in the quality of teaching and i think the reason independent clubs are doing so well now is that they have more flexibility in terms of where and when they can train.

Master Kevin Hornsey (ex-Chairman of the BTCB) is in Northampton.

Is he also WTF/KKW? It would be interesting to meet someone in real life who studies the style!

 

[andyjeffries]

Is he also WTF/KKW? It would be interesting to meet someone in real life who studies the style!

The BTCB is the Member National Association for the WTF in the UK. Kevin is I believe a 6th or 7th Dan Kukkiwon (he was a 6th dan for ages, so I'm sure he's a 7th now). He's a very nice guy and definitely knows KKW style Taekwondo