how much can u learn from videos?

[Tony Starks]

i was just curious on how much can be learned from videos, and how the quality of the knowledge gained would be. i know u might not be as proficient as someone who trains with other people at a school or gym. has anyone tried learning from videos? did u actually learn material? do u recommend it?
the reason why im asking is because money is kinda tight and i might need to take a break from MA, but i thought that maybe practicing with videos might do me some good.

any info would greatly be appreciated
-Tony

 

[D_Brady]

I think if you understand motion you can learn alot from videos but its alot like shadow boxing, you need interaction of a body to see what is effective and what only looked good on tape.



Dan.

 

[A.R.K.]

I agree with Brady, you need a partner or partners to get the full effect of any technique or tactic. If you are already have experience then a video can be an added bonus of new information, but not a substitute.

To me it's like a seminar, if I can get just one good piece of information, technique that is new or a variation it was worth it in terms of time spent analysing it.

 

[Mormegil]

My opinion - useful if you already know what your doing. It appears you already are training, so I figure it would have to be better than nothing.

If you're short on funds, get a training partner. They're usually free. I think there's a link or a forum just for that here.

Better yet, combine it. Train with a partner to a video. You can go back and forth.

 

[Kirk]

The IKCA has a video
course all the way up to black. It does require training with a
partner, and is one of the most successful video training courses
that I'm aware of (although I'm not aware of many, and haven't
really researched it). Thier guys kicked butt at Trejo's Tournament
last month.

 

[tarabos]

if you're just taking a break for now then i suppose it would be good to hold you over. like everyone said, having a training partner(s) is best, but doing something is a lot better than doing nothing.

you may not even need the videos, i would just practice/review what you know already to the best of your ability, rather than concentrate on learning new things through video instruction. video review, well that's not sooooo bad i guess...:idunno:

 

[James Kovacich]

Any medium that will give you exposure to something that you don't know will be a positive experience. There is a lot that makes up a martial art and some of it can be done and learned by yourself. But you will need a partner to get the full effect.

Also if you are experienced you will understand more from the medium than a beginner would.

Videos can "enhance" your training in my opinion. If they had them way back when, there would of been no excuse to learning all the kata and grab arts and self defense technique that I was learning. Today you can enroll in a class and get a good portion of your curriculum on video or dvd and practice at home.

If you are a total "newbie" then you may not totally understand what you are learning and that can create bad habits but it still can enhance anyones training if you are a student in someones school.

:asian:

 

[JDenz]

It depends on your experiance. If you are already very poficient in an art videos in that art can help you. For example if I got a wrestling video about one aspect say a shuck by knee block series or something I could definitly pick up the material. So I would say it depends on how well trained you are in that art. I would also say if you are studying the art with a professional and you get a video it could help alot because if you had questions you could go to your instructer.

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Tony Starks
i was just curious on how much can be learned from videos, and how the quality of the knowledge gained would be. i know u might not be as proficient as someone who trains with other people at a school or gym. has anyone tried learning from videos? did u actually learn material? do u recommend it?
the reason why im asking is because money is kinda tight and i might need to take a break from MA, but i thought that maybe practicing with videos might do me some good.

any info would greatly be appreciated
-Tony

In the FMA, as I was taught, there's what's called "learning triangle" (lotsa triangles used in the FMA )

The learning triangle is: see it, feel it, do it.

You have to see it done correctly. You have to feel it done correctly. You have to do it, with guidance, until it's correct.

A video, really, doesn't do justice to any of these three.

You do see it done correctly, but the perspective is off because it's a 2-D rendering of a 3-D action. Also, you never get to see it done from other angles (except those on the video). You could be missing all sorts of things that are hidden from the camera and never realize it. So this, really, is just a tip of the hat to the "see it" part of the triangle.

You never get to feel it done correctly. The video can't do that. And if you have a training partner who's not already versed in the material, then you don't know if it's being done correctly or not when you do feel it. If your training partner is versed in the material, then that's different. But then he/she is teaching you, even if he/she isn't formally a "teacher."

You never know whether you're doing it correctly or not, and you receive no guidance. Again, unless your training partner is well versed and is teaching you.

And, a video can't answer any questions that you may have. If it's not in the video, you won't know it or have access to it. And it's impossible to cover every subtle nuance on a video.

And, taking a slight tangent, learning from print media (books/magazines/discussion forums) is even worse because you don't even see the instructor in motion at all. So, really, you're not getting any aspects (even a tip of the hat) of the learning triangle.

So, if you're starting from scratch, then it's almost impossible to really learn from a video.

If, however, you have a solid foundation and understand the principles involved, then you can learn new perspectives on those principles from video.

For me, print and video media have been very useful, in their ways.

Print media is great for getting intellectual, philosophical, and historical information about the arts.

Video is great for notetaking. For instance, this week, I'm in Denver training with one of my instructors. I go to his house and we do some forms. He's not worried about teaching me the applications because he knows my background and knows that I can extrapolate on my own. So, I come back to the dojo where I'm staying, set up my video camera, and film myself doing the forms, to the best of my memory and whatever notes I jotted while training with my instructor. I make a running commentary about things I saw, felt, remember ... or don't remember and need to ask about. Then I review the tape and see if it looks right to me. If it looks like I'm at least in the neighborhood of what my instructor was doing. I jot down the questions that I thought of while running the forms. Then I go back the next day and fill in some holes and do it all over again.

Once I have it down reasonably well, then I video myself again and put all of it in my library for future reference. That way, I have the entire progression from fumbling with questions up through a basic proficiency with the motions.

This has worked well for me. I also find it useful when I don't have the video. If I watch myself do it in the mirror (which is similar to watching the video), I can pinpoint things that I'm doing wrong.

Of course, ideally, you also get your instructor on film doing the material. But some instructors prefer not to be taped. Or, in the case I'm in right now, I don't think he'd mind, but taking the camera and tripod over to his house and setting them up would be a pain the keester and would interrupt my time with him.

And, while I'm currently using this method for forms, I have also used it for techniques and it works just as well. Of course, for the techniques, it helps to have a partner to video with.

Mike

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

I primarily use MA videos and DVDs for refresher training. I just use them to jog my memory on the movements in poomse (forms), etc.

But, IMO, in order to really learn and understand the correct manner in which to execute a technique or form, one needs to train under a competent instructor and with other students who can help you practice properly. Whether that's in a dojang, a garage, in someone's back yard or at a park, it doesn't matter. As along as the person doing the teaching knows what they're doing.

I think it's much better to view the action live and in person rather than on the small screen... :asian:

 

[sweeper]

I think videos can be a very nice supliment to a new to medium student because they can watch something being done over and over and concentrate on diffrent aspects. I would say it's better than nothing but it can't replace a live instructor (at least with what I do). there are some things you just can't learn from a video, anything requiring contact with another person as pesilat pointed out, so things like sensitivity or grappling are pritty much out (I suppose you could learn some grappling techniques with a partner if you both already understood how to grapple well.).

 

[muayThaiPerson]

You can learn the way people fight. Think of it as experience without contact. You study the mistakes made and techniques used. Dont make the same mistakes they do

 

[pesilat]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
You can learn the way people fight. Think of it as experience without contact. You study the mistakes made and techniques used. Dont make the same mistakes they do

Yes. But it's still inferior to being there and seeing the fight in person. You don't have any say in the point(s) of view, or in the width of the perspective. You see only what the cameraman saw (or chose to see).

It's like watching the fight through someone else's eyes. And, often, you have no idea if that someone had any clue about what they were watching. So their focus may be on something completely irrelevant to the action a fighter is interested in seeing.

But it is better than nothing.

And it is a good supplement to training with a real instructor.

And it does have value.

But it should definitely and always be considered an inferior training method when compared to training with a real instructor, or seeing the fight live, or getting in the ring yourself.

Mike

 

[GaryM]

Videos range from being extreamly valeuable to almost no help at all. For the beginner they are of limited value at best. Without a training partner they are practically worthless. But to an instructor they can be great. Sometimes you can learn a new technique or escape ect. and more often you see the 'real world' attack that you may have to defend against. This can be truely 'enlightening'. It's not a matter of learning to do it thier way, more often its a matter of learning to defeat thier way with your way. And when you see something that works steal it!

 

[muayThaiPerson]

the 2 post above are definatley right. To a begginner, its worthless, unless u have experience.

when a fighter watches a video:

the words of a beginner: "aww, i could have....he should have....stupid, he was open..."

the words of an experience fighter: "i see, he made the mistake right HERE.....that combo is lethal, i'll train to defend that....that was a good move"

the more experience, the more open the mind

 

[sweeper]

my experience with smi-skilled fighters (havn't watched vids with anyone else) is total silence

 

[Johnathan Napalm]

The good thing with video is you can rewind and review a technique or action repeatedly.

 

[James Kovacich]

Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
The good thing with video is you can rewind and review a technique or action repeatedly.

Thats it! In class we learn 5 new techniques. Of those 5 techiques, maybe 1 or 2 will stick in our minds clearly.

Any medium that enhances is a plus.

 

[lonekimono]

We never had them when i started,but now i put my teq's on video and look at them.
But i will say for the new people who wants to train by video?
Not a good thing, you need hands on first with a teacher then when you learn something you can go to the video.
Look at it this way kenpo is like playing pool every strike set's up the next, now if the new student looks at a tape and he hear's that what will he/she say??? fine a good school and a good teacher.


yours in kenpo:asian:

 

[KenpoBruce2006]

I like the idea personally. The best way to do it is to get another person to train with you. Watch the skills being taught then work them over and over. Thats what you do in a dojo. Video has the advantage of not having a bad day or an off day. The skills appear the same every time. If you are not sure of a technique, rewind it and watch it again. It requires perserverence, but then again thats required everytime you go to the dojo. The IKCA is famous for standardization. Thats one of the advantages of video. And they give feedback and are available by phone to ask questions. It's not as convenient as having the instructor there in your house to make immediate corrections. But, if you follow thier guidelines, it works just fine.

Ciao
KenpoBruce2006