How many types of different bowing are there in martial arts

[Gerry Seymour]

Do you bow in your system? I would like to see the bow performed.

We do. There are some significant variations between schools. I'll put together a quick video later for you, to show the three I'm aware of (standing, kneeling, with two variations of the latter).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree. And there is NOTHING worse than the penguin slap and the chicken peck, in my opinion. Or, maybe, the look sideways, facing one direction, and a twisted sort of bow in my direction...I cannot even begin to try to reciprocate.

That is the single best description of that bow I've ever heard, MI.

 

[MI_martialist]

Looking forward to seeing it and having a discussion with you...
Thank you!

We do. There are some significant variations between schools. I'll put together a quick video later for you, to show the three I'm aware of (standing, kneeling, with two variations of the latter).

 

[Bill Mattocks]

There's also the more formal kneeling bow (zarei in Japanese). The standing bow is called ritsu-rei, IIRC - I may have reversed those terms.

We have an informal or 'less formal' standing bow, which we call tachi rei. We have a kneeling bow, which is considered more formal, which we call za rei.

Over the years, I have become less willing to state this on MT or Facebook, because there are apparently eleventy thousand pouncetrifles who eagerly await each opportunity to tell me how wrong I am.

All I can say is this is what we do and this is what we call it. Haters gonna hate.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Looking forward to seeing it and having a discussion with you...
Thank you!

We have an informal or 'less formal' standing bow, which we call tachi rei. We have a kneeling bow, which is considered more formal, which we call za rei.

Over the years, I have become less willing to state this on MT or Facebook, because there are apparently eleventy thousand pouncetrifles who eagerly await each opportunity to tell me how wrong I am.

All I can say is this is what we do and this is what we call it. Haters gonna hate.

That's about how we approach it, too. Someone with some knowledge of the language can probably enlighten us whether there's technically a difference between ritsu rei and tachi rei, or they are just two different ways of saying the same thing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Looking forward to seeing it and having a discussion with you...
Thank you!

http://wncselfdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/NGA_bowing.mp4

I mention the "ritual" of the bow in the video. By that, I mean two things: the details and how they are performed, and the mindfulness we put into it. For me, the latter is the purpose for the former. We don't typically get into the deep etiquette about who bows lower, etc. Each instructor tends to have some variation on the "ritual", and each has his or her own reasons for those variations.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

That's about how we approach it, too. Someone with some knowledge of the language can probably enlighten us whether there's technically a difference between ritsu rei and tachi rei, or they are just two different ways of saying the same thing.

We regularly work with karateka from Okinawa - meaning they were born and raised there, so presumably know their own language and customs, right? So we've been corrected on our pronunciation in the dojo, various items of etiquette, etc, from time to time; but nothing like the heavy-handed *correction* we get from people who are not native-born Japanese or Okinawans. Amazing how much people who were not born or raised there know. I wonder if there are Germans correcting other Germans on their use of English or American idioms or slang or whatnot who have no actual experience themselves (probably happens everywhere, right?).

I will say that according to some of our Okinawan sources, they often just shrug when we ask them about differences we see; quite often, they think we're getting carried away with minutia that doesn't matter. One phrase I recall hearing quite often was "Young guy do, old guy do." Meaning sometimes things were taught differently by the same master to people later in his life. Sometimes it means the differences are so minor that no one cares - only we Americans get that obsessed about things like degrees of angle and deepness of bow, etc.

We are not Japanese (except for my Sensei, who was born there and is Japanese by his mother's side). We do the best we can to honor the customs and traditions, but I'm sure we get some things wrong. Occasionally we get an opportunity to work with native-born Okinawan or Japanese people who give us more information or correct minor things, but in the long run, I think it's the fact that our respect and attempts to show honor is what matters. That and the fact that no matter what corrections someone wants to give me, I do what my Sensei says to do. Period.

 

[Buka]

When we bow, we never take our eyes off the person we are bowing to. To some, that might seem disrespectful, but to us - it is the opposite.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When we bow, we never take our eyes off the person we are bowing to. To some, that might seem disrespectful, but to us - it is the opposite.

That is my approach (and my primary instructor's). It is not universal within NGA.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So what I said is correct.

No, which means I must be wrong, in this instance.

 

[drop bear]

 

[MI_martialist]

I watched the video but did not have sound...I do not know why. Can you upload to youtube maybe? I don't know.

There are a few observations from what I saw. We often speak about martial training being about awareness, about purposeful physical movement, etc. right?

I noticed that your feet were in multiple different positions during the standing bow. Are your feet supposed to be in a specific position, and if so, is there a purpose? Is there a purpose for them not being in a specific position?

As for your hands, why are they on the front of the thighs? Why are your fingers in the position they are in? Why do they move down your thighs when you bow?

Despite what one could see as inconsistencies, I see multiple martial applications to the standing bow.

For the seated bow, are there 2 different ways you get into the seated position? If so, why for each one? Why the left hand first? Why place the hands at the distance you place them at?

I see multiple martial applications for the seated bow as well.

I know not everyone places the same amount of emphasis on these types of things, but in a classical setting, we pay attention to everything, and the etiquette that one displays shows a great deal about one's commitment to attention to detail.

http://wncselfdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/NGA_bowing.mp4

I mention the "ritual" of the bow in the video. By that, I mean two things: the details and how they are performed, and the mindfulness we put into it. For me, the latter is the purpose for the former. We don't typically get into the deep etiquette about who bows lower, etc. Each instructor tends to have some variation on the "ritual", and each has his or her own reasons for those variations.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think that's the bow I'll require from my students, now that I've decided they have to call me "Your Majesty".

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I watched the video but did not have sound...I do not know why. Can you upload to youtube maybe? I don't know.

There are a few observations from what I saw. We often speak about martial training being about awareness, about purposeful physical movement, etc. right?

I noticed that your feet were in multiple different positions during the standing bow. Are your feet supposed to be in a specific position, and if so, is there a purpose? Is there a purpose for them not being in a specific position?

As for your hands, why are they on the front of the thighs? Why are your fingers in the position they are in? Why do they move down your thighs when you bow?

Despite what one could see as inconsistencies, I see multiple martial applications to the standing bow.

For the seated bow, are there 2 different ways you get into the seated position? If so, why for each one? Why the left hand first? Why place the hands at the distance you place them at?

I see multiple martial applications for the seated bow as well.

I know not everyone places the same amount of emphasis on these types of things, but in a classical setting, we pay attention to everything, and the etiquette that one displays shows a great deal about one's commitment to attention to detail.

I'll see about the audio - I didn't check it after I downsampled it to get it below my upload threshold.

As to the inconsistencies, those are probably a result of three factors:

1. When I talk, I move. Kind of a lot.
2. I typically use the standing bow as a very informal start, so there's not a lot of stillness in it.
3. We (the folks I trained with) don't pay much attention to the details of a standing bow.

The hands in the kneeling bow:

1. They are on the thighs because that's where we put them. Not a lot of reason I'm aware of - it's just how we've always done it. Probably somehow derived from the way it was done in Hokkaido.
2. I usually wear a hakama - probably 70% of the time. Bowing with it requires moving it out from under the feet (or you stand on it when you stand up). My hands automatically slide down to gather it behind the knees - that's the movement you see starting there.

There's not a lot of deep significance in the individual movements. I use a different kneeling bow than I was taught (the one with no step is mine), to force students to work on their balance. The left-hand-down first portion of the kneeling bow is reportedly left over from keeping the sword hand free until the last moment (as with most remainders from another culture, there is doubt), but for us it is now simply the hand that belongs down first.