Can some weapon arts/weapons actually be considered martial arts anymore?

[beau_safken]

I know this might go really bad fast...but just go with the principle.

A martial art is obviously a "Warlike art" by definition. So therefore, if a weapon is no longer used for war or like purposes, how can it be a martial art then?

Kyudo - Bow vs. Gun + 1000 yards = gun > bow
Kendo - Not too many people using swords now a days...
Iaido - Same problem

Or the following weapons:
Kama - Unless we stop using combines...not gonna see many of these layin around
Sai - BBQ tool maybe could substitute?
Nunchaku - Possibly a couple highlighers taped to some paperclips for a office nunchaku?

NOTE: Escrima sticks, bo staff and other blunt weapons are still used by LEO and others all over. So those don't fall in the category i'm going for.

The idea is if these weapons are not used for war...they can't be martial arts as per the word martial would have us believe. Granted these are important parts of history and help teach the principles of both human nature, history, inner focus and other benefits...but they aren't used in modern warfare. Martial = Warlike...So when a weapon is obsolete can it honestly be a martial art?

 

[AceHBK]

Kyudo - Bow vs. Gun + 1000 yards = gun > bow
Kendo - Not too many people using swords now a days...
Iaido - Same problem
So when a weapon is obsolete can it honestly be a martial art?

I had to laugh at the Kyudo part.
I understand what you are saying but u can't take them out of the meaing of martial arts just b/c it isnt used anymore.

Many think martial arts isnt what it use to be due to the fact people shoot, run you over with a car, etc.

It is still considered a martial art b/c it was warlike in the past and it is the history that remains which is the biggest thing with martial arts, history and preserving it as much as possible.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I imagine if you find a "Jitsu" instead of a "Do" you will have more luck and fighting application.

Kenjitsu
Iaijitsu

But try and find these in a Jitsu. Although I think there may be a Iaijitsu near me combined with a Juijitsu school.

But I have often wondered the same thing about any of the CMA sword forms I have learned.

 

[stickarts]

In my view those are still martial arts. Although they are not common in todays society they still have a martial application and are organized systems.
A good thought provoking question though!
Curious to see other posts on this!

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I would say they are still Martial. There is still a combative root to them. Just because technology has superceded them, they are still violent acts. As far as sword work being obsolete, I trained hard with a machete, primarlily using western saber techniques when I was stationed in Panama. That thing was often in my hand and I wanted to be able to react to a threat with it. Never had too, but best to be prepared.

Jeff

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

I never use the word 'Dysentary'; but, it's still a valid word and it could come in handy some time.

 

[beau_safken]

Many think martial arts isnt what it use to be due to the fact people shoot, run you over with a car, etc.

Ahh you are talking about Kurumajitsu...Used a lot around here in San francisco.

Even if the arts are still important, someone has to be calling BS a little as to their application. Granted my initials are BS so maybe I'm just predisposed with a good BS meter...Who knows.

 

[stickarts]

Ahh you are talking about Kurumajitsu...Used a lot around here in San francisco.

Even if the arts are still important, someone has to be calling BS a little as to their application. Granted my initials are BS so maybe I'm just predisposed with a good BS meter...Who knows.

I practice several traditional weapons. Some of it isn't practical anymore although some of it is, such as some of the footwork and learning angles of attack. Mostly I just enjoy it. I have several students that also practice it for the enjoyment. There is still a place for it although it may not be the best option for those strictly looking for self defense! :0)
Sometimes different things become important at different stages in your career.

 

[jgrimm01]

True, we're pretty far-removed from the days where a large number of people walked the streets brandishing large bladed weapons...lol...but I think of it more as focusing on the 'art' part and not as much the 'martial', I guess. It gets into the tradition, the culture, the history...the 'art'.

Plus, as somewhat stated in an earlier post, movement and actions practiced through weaponry can aid in empty hand combat, can assist in developing body shifting and body control, etc. Working with and becoming proficient with a weapon translates into better proficiency with your body, the true 'weapon' that the conventional weapons become an extension of.

J

 

[bignick]

Well, often are hands and feet used in Modern warfare either? Then we've disqualified almost every martial art that ever existed from being "martial".......

 

[still learning]

Hello, The last time I saw this was on the News, people throwing stones, bottles, using sticks to attack the police. This was America?

Most of us do not train for thowing stones or bottles? is there a difference for stones and rocks? Hum? which one is better to throw with?

Lots of yardman and gardners still use the Kamas for cutting and trimming bushes here in Hawaii. Many have carry them in there trucks all the time.

I carry a machete and branch saw(in the back of my seat). Many times off roading to go fishing? ..you may need these things for making fires and getting unstuck too?

Because anything resembling like the weapons in class we can use it like it is our weapon and defend the same way we train with it? ,Bo's-broom stick, break the broom handle in two pieces-Kali? B-B-Q forks- Sai's? curve knife-Kama's. This is endless?

Just my thoughts here.....Aloha

 

[MJS]

I know this might go really bad fast...but just go with the principle.

A martial art is obviously a "Warlike art" by definition. So therefore, if a weapon is no longer used for war or like purposes, how can it be a martial art then?

Kyudo - Bow vs. Gun + 1000 yards = gun > bow
Kendo - Not too many people using swords now a days...
Iaido - Same problem

Or the following weapons:
Kama - Unless we stop using combines...not gonna see many of these layin around
Sai - BBQ tool maybe could substitute?
Nunchaku - Possibly a couple highlighers taped to some paperclips for a office nunchaku?

NOTE: Escrima sticks, bo staff and other blunt weapons are still used by LEO and others all over. So those don't fall in the category i'm going for.

The idea is if these weapons are not used for war...they can't be martial arts as per the word martial would have us believe. Granted these are important parts of history and help teach the principles of both human nature, history, inner focus and other benefits...but they aren't used in modern warfare. Martial = Warlike...So when a weapon is obsolete can it honestly be a martial art?

While some weapons may not have a practical value in todays day and age, as Stickarts said, many times people practice with weapons, just to honor the tradition that they hold, because they're interested in learning about weapons used in a certain time period, or just because they enjoy it. Of course, its possible that the movements, footwork, application, etc., can be applied to other things.

Mike

 

[stone_dragone]

The question of whether or not to consider certain weapon based martial arts to be valid martial (or military) arts lies in the semantics. If you only view the lump of martial arts without subdividing them (such as into traditional and contemporary) then you would have to define such a broad spectrum of arts that either virtually everything would be thrown out, or included, without any grey area. To break the martial arts into traditional and contemporary would solve the problem entirely. Sub-division is the key, but then again, I've never been a fan of long division.

I personally think that the primary benefit in traditional weapons training is not so much in the technique learned (I don't go around much catching swords in my sai these days) but in the mindset provided. If you can truly see in your mind's eye the effect of that traditional weapon, be it a severed limb, opened artery or bruised skull, then one is better prepared to deal with the stresses of an actual confrontation, violent or not.

Secondly, I find that the hand-eye coordination and fluidity of motion exercised when practicing nunchaku techniques has numerous benefits outside of being able to make funny shapes in the air with two sticks attached by rope.

My two bits...

 

[Cryozombie]

or not.

Secondly, I find that the hand-eye coordination and fluidity of motion exercised when practicing nunchaku techniques has numerous benefits outside of being able to make funny shapes in the air with two sticks attached by rope.

My two bits...

This also works well if you happen to be in a candle shop. Tho I swear the little old lady behind the counter had a coranary from screaming at me...

 

[Carol]

I know this might go really bad fast...but just go with the principle.

A martial art is obviously a "Warlike art" by definition. So therefore, if a weapon is no longer used for war or like purposes, how can it be a martial art then?

Kyudo - Bow vs. Gun + 1000 yards = gun > bow
Kendo - Not too many people using swords now a days...
Iaido - Same problem

Or the following weapons:
Kama - Unless we stop using combines...not gonna see many of these layin around
Sai - BBQ tool maybe could substitute?
Nunchaku - Possibly a couple highlighers taped to some paperclips for a office nunchaku?

NOTE: Escrima sticks, bo staff and other blunt weapons are still used by LEO and others all over. So those don't fall in the category i'm going for.

The idea is if these weapons are not used for war...they can't be martial arts as per the word martial would have us believe. Granted these are important parts of history and help teach the principles of both human nature, history, inner focus and other benefits...but they aren't used in modern warfare. Martial = Warlike...So when a weapon is obsolete can it honestly be a martial art?

For me it is. I took a series of Iaido classes at my school. I was originally interested in the majesty and traditions of studying an old Japanese art.

What I wasn't prepared for was how it improved my Kenpo! My step-drags got a lot better. My forearms got stronger and that improved a lot of my strikes. My stickwork...what little that I do, got SO MUCH easier after those classes.

I don't know enough yet to be considered anything more than a beginner student, but for me, it's a martial art

 

[bushidomartialarts]

for most of us, none of it is 'martial' if we go with beau's premise.

the vast majority of us will go through our entire adult lives without applying any of the combat skills we've learned. no war = no martial.

 

[Hand Sword]

I agree. Hopefully, that is the case for most of us. But, just for the sake of a definition, I say it will always be martial arts. Martial is war, and the studying of weapons fits into it.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I know this might go really bad fast...but just go with the principle.

A martial art is obviously a "Warlike art" by definition. So therefore, if a weapon is no longer used for war or like purposes, how can it be a martial art then?

Kyudo - Bow vs. Gun + 1000 yards = gun > bow
Kendo - Not too many people using swords now a days...
Iaido - Same problem

Or the following weapons:
Kama - Unless we stop using combines...not gonna see many of these layin around
Sai - BBQ tool maybe could substitute?
Nunchaku - Possibly a couple highlighers taped to some paperclips for a office nunchaku?

NOTE: Escrima sticks, bo staff and other blunt weapons are still used by LEO and others all over. So those don't fall in the category i'm going for.

The idea is if these weapons are not used for war...they can't be martial arts as per the word martial would have us believe. Granted these are important parts of history and help teach the principles of both human nature, history, inner focus and other benefits...but they aren't used in modern warfare. Martial = Warlike...So when a weapon is obsolete can it honestly be a martial art?

Beau,

By your own defintion:

Nukes.

Tanks.

Planes - Fighters and Bombers

Submarines.

Missiles.

Guns.

IED's.


All of these are used for war.

Nothing else would quailfy. So no one here is doing a martial art (* unless currently enlisted active or reserve *).

 

[Makalakumu]

I think of martial arts as being preservatory or practical. Some arts like naginata-do or Iaido are clearly not relevant anymore to self defense, yet they are still martial arts because the preserve the techniques within them and pass them on. Other arts fall into this catagory as well.

Practical arts are those that can be directly applied to self defense in our modern world.

And then there are some arts that are a mix of both.

upnorthkyosa

ps - I've trained a little kyudo and from where I'm from, many a deer has fallen from what I learned...

 

[beau_safken]

Beau,

By your own defintion:

Nukes.

Tanks.

Planes - Fighters and Bombers

Submarines.

Missiles.

Guns.

IED's.


All of these are used for war.

Nothing else would quailfy. So no one here is doing a martial art (* unless currently enlisted active or reserve *).

Exactly.