How does a martial artist fight a boxer without kicking?

[Yari]

Originally posted by Bystander

My If you take away the kicks and grabs of fully rounded martial artist, is what you have left a boxer?

What techniques and concepts would you still be able to use against the boxer?

The way you work without using kicking or grappeling will stil be different, depending on style.


/Yari

 

[Cruentus]

All I have to say is study something combative, such as Arnis, Bando, Systema, Krav Magra, or whatever.

Boxing, Karate, Submission fighting, and arts like these are related to competition/exhabition. Boxing, submission fighting, and tournament fighting hone techniques related to there competitive environment. They do very well in their environment, and they learn things that are very useful out of their environment as well.

A combative art, however, does not just hone techniques useful in competition, they hone EVERYTHING related to combat. If you learn a complete combative system, you will learn all the dirty tricks there are to beat anyone of any discipline. If you train hard, and I mean REALLY hard (and it helps to jump in the ring every now and then and learn what that feels like) then you should be set.

PAUL

 

[Mao]

FIREARMS!!! :rofl: :2pistols: :bazook:

 

[Damian Mavis]

Sweeper, thats interesting....what is a sweep with the ball of the foot?

Yes your able to do a stop kick below the knee and to the foot it but is very hard compared to the stop kick to the top of the leg (upper thigh and hip) at least in Thai Boxing.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[sweeper]

a leg sweep with the ball of the foot? In judo one of the methods of taking someone down I learned was a foot sweep, basicly when your opponant is moving you swing your foot in a semi-circle right above the ground and sort of cup their ancle between the ball of your foot and your big toe, I have also heard that some forms of karate use that method. in judo we would usualy pull the person up before hand also but I'm not sure what limitations on takedowns there are in mauy thai.

It doesn't realy seem to work against kickboxers anyway because they tend to keep their weight shifted further back, but when you are fighting someone who prefers to box (western style) sometimes it can catch them off guard.

Also why won't a stop kick to the shin work for controling movement in a thai boxing match? seems like anytime your opponant tries to close you can hit their front foot (if in range).

 

[Damian Mavis]

Ohhhh..the Sweep with the ball of the foot is something I was taught for standup grappling prior to a takedown. I thought you meant it as a long range attack that would sweep a persons leg out at range.

As for the stop kick to the lower part of the leg.... I practice at full contact and full speed.....it's next to impossible for me to stop the leg at the bottom but very easy to stop it at the top. At least in the ring going all out in my experience. Now I'm thinking you mean the advance of an attacker... I was talking about stopping a kick from launching by the attacker. The only thing that seems to phase my oncomming oponnent is a solid stopping technique to the torso or hip....but I'll try going lower a bit and see what happens.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[sweeper]

I'm not quite sure how it would apply to a thai boxing match (the stop kick I was talking about), I think it would depend on your opponant's prefference of range but for someone who is trying to box you you can probably stomp their lead leg to control their range. as far as long range sweep, only one I know is a cut kick (think that's the right name) where you throw something like a round kick and drop it down to the ground when the rais their leg and take out their support leg, but of course that one is legal and practiced in thai boxing.

 

[IFAJKD]

In the larger sense, I don't think that finding a "technique" to beat a boxer is where it's at. You have to develop a boxers attributes as well as a trappers attributes and a kickboxers and a grapplers. yada yada yada. Attribute development is always overlooked in these kinds of questions. I think footwork that is what I have called "bladed motion" is how to beat any style. Once the attributes are developed, it doesn't matter what technique you use.

 

[Damian Mavis]

Sweeper, now that you bring the word stomping up I know we can stomp on the front of the thigh with our heal when the opponent is facing us....just no stomping on the knee itself.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[sweeper]

sounds like fun

IFAJKD

what do you mean by bladed motion?

 

[IFAJKD]

what do you mean by bladed motion?

This concept is taking the fact that you don't fight someone at their game. In one sense we teach to avoid trading blows in long or kicking range. This tag game doesn't last long and the end is predictable. So the option is to move. If you watch someone spar who is a kickboxer. Thy simply move and train to avoid the threat of the kick.
If you train for the reality of the blade then you learn to move to avoid being cut or stuck. The footwork is different the hand movement is different and sensitivity is much higher. It mimics more "cat like" motion. movement is less wide based and spread and quicker utilizing angles and better penetration.

Thus bladed motion is
1) moving as if there is a constant threat of a blade
2) moving to better utilize your weapons while avoiding their's

When weapon sparring the best concept is to keep in mind that it is better not to ever cut them than to get cut once yourself. Using this concept, we attack very differently and more surely.

How do you get it..............Weapons, Weapons, Weapons, Spar, Spar, Spar.
One time I read an article by an Instructor who stated that they too did weapons but they simply used their usual punches, blocks and kicks in the same way they use their weapons. They punch with sticks.

This is not going to do it. You really have to have a strong weapons base to accomplish it. Learning a few simple drills with weapons will not do it and nor will simply punching and blocking with sticks. The result however is unreal. Personally (and I am biased) I would suggest an FMA to gain this.
Hope this helps.

 

[sweeper]

yeah I think Iunderstand now.

 

[IFAJKD]

Glad to hear that. I think I get a little wordy sometimes huh.:asian:

 

[sweeper]

well I havn't realy done any bladework but my JKD teacher also teaches kali so sometimes he shows us how the movemant of the stick drills apply to knife fighting, but in knife fighting you have to be alot more conservative. Some of the more advanced students practice with knives so I think I know what you mean (from seeing them spar) but I havn't (yet).

 

[donald]

Originally posted by Bystander

My question is... how do you fight somebody with a boxing mentality using what you know about martial arts... without kicking or grappling. Would such a fight merely become a fight between two boxers? If you take away the kicks and grabs of fully rounded martial artist, is what you have left a boxer?

What techniques and concepts would you still be able to use against the boxer?

My question is, why would you? The boxer is going to do their utmost to knock you onto ***** street. Using all tools at their disposal, i.e. hook,jab, etc.,etc.. Hence I would'nt hinder myself by limiting my use of tools...

Jus a thought :asian:

 

[sweeper]

Originally posted by Bystander

Thanks for all the input... and keep it coming. I'll tell you why I asked this question. I came from a TKD background, for the most part. I've learned to spar with my right foot forward (I'm right-handed), and I depend on kicks a lot.

Recently, I've joined this boxing/kickboxing/BJJ gym where they do train their fighters (successfully) for competitive mixed martial arts events

Originally posted by Bystander

I didn't post this message to ask a "what if" question in any sense. I was posting this to see if anyone might have had the same experience as me where you want to see if anything you have learned about the martial arts would apply to boxing... or would it simply be inapplicable in that situation.

This one was on the first page.. he was talking about learning to box, like in a ring fight.

 

[Bushido]

In my opinion and experience, it is very VERY diffucult to do trapping vs an "average" boxer, impossible vs a good experienced one.

-Bushido :samurai:

 

[sweeper]

I can't speak from experience on this because I suck to much at trapping to trap a bad boxer.. but some of that might just be tactics. I would say it's probably very difficult to trap a boxers attacks, but if you can box with them well enough to get to grappaling range, you could box with them well enough to close ground and initiate contact (for trapping) kinda force them into your fight.

 

[IFAJKD]

Trapping doesn't work like that. You don't try to trap nor do you trap an attack. In JKD you typically intercept and/or destroy an attack and blast then trap(if you have to) their attempt to cover. To try to trap a punch is unrealistic even for a poor puncher. Trapping isn't what you "look for", it's what you "respond with" to continue your directional flow.
To say that you would then try to trap them is nonsensical. You try to lock, or HKE to terminate not trap. Trapping, in other words is not an end but a means to an end. HKE and chokes and locks are the end.

 

[sweeper]

well what do you call it when you alter your position or your opponant's position in such a awy that they aren't able to attack you (with the given limb) with out altering your position or theirs.. for example, someone takes a nice wide swing at you, you bob than check the arm on it's way back wial steping outside (to that limb's side), untill they move that arm it can't come back at you, so they either have to twist their body (to strik with the other side) or kick you.. maybe I'm not making myself clear since I know jack about terminology..