Martial Art is not sport

[terryl965]

Historical fact: Sports were created to train men for war.

Then the sport of MA was here prior to the Art. Do you have any historical fact you would like to post or give a link to. Please not trying to start a fight of words, it is just in all my years of training I have never heard this before. QWould love to have some info. if available.
Thanks
terry

 

[Hand Sword]

So, might it then be fair to say that sport is not the art, it's training for the art? To me, that seems a reasonable way of classifying the difference between the two.

I agree with that. How you apply what you've learned is the key. We all (sport and fighter) learn the same stuff punches, kicks, etc.. The difference is in our mindsets.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

Historical fact: Sports were created to train men for war.

i'm pretty sure it was the other way 'round: the first sporting competitions were people showing off how good they were at war. at least in in babylon/egypt. maybe in other ancient civilizations. which sports or societies were you thinking of?

 

[RoninPimp]

i'm pretty sure it was the other way 'round: the first sporting competitions were people showing off how good they were at war. at least in in babylon/egypt. maybe in other ancient civilizations. which sports or societies were you thinking of?

-Greece and the ancient olympics. Both boxing and wrestling have been traditionaly training for warriors. It may very well be one of history's many chicken and egg kind of things.

 

[RoninPimp]

Then the sport of MA was here prior to the Art. Do you have any historical fact you would like to post or give a link to. Please not trying to start a fight of words, it is just in all my years of training I have never heard this before. QWould love to have some info. if available.
Thanks
terry

-Just general traditional boxing and wrestling history.

 

[Hand Sword]

Fighting existed first, the arts were created to hone those skills, the sports created last to practice as close to the real things as possible. Boxing is an extension of fighting, used to civilize it. Wrestling is the sport version of something that goes back to the earliest humans, as well as other primates, rolling around.

 

[Adept]

I'm not entirely sure what the actual topic of debate is here. That people who compete in sports do not classify as martial artists?

I guess it all depends on how the individual wants to define martial arts, and martial artists. Personally, I think someone who only competes in the boxing ring is a martial artist, while someone who only competes in kata competitions is not. Thats just the way I define them.

 

[Hand Sword]

Hey! shadow boxing is a part of a boxers training too.

 

[Ross]

I'm not entirely sure what the actual topic of debate is here. That people who compete in sports do not classify as martial artists?

I guess it all depends on how the individual wants to define martial arts, and martial artists. Personally, I think someone who only competes in the boxing ring is a martial artist, while someone who only competes in kata competitions is not. Thats just the way I define them.

Not sure I would agree that boxing is a martial art. I not sure a boxer would either!

"martial - adj belonging or relating to, or suitable for, war or the military; warlike."

"art - noun 1 a the creation of works of beauty, especially visual ones; b such creations thought of collectively. 2 human skill and work as opposed to nature. 3 a skill, especially one gained through practice."

I have always considered martial arts to be an expression (of the founder) of which ever art you happen to study.

However, Martial art is not a sport. BUT there are adaptations of martial arts to a sporting environment (ie Judo and TKD = olympics).

Maybe the term Martial Sport would sit better.

 

[RoninPimp]

Not sure I would agree that boxing is a martial art. I not sure a boxer would either!

"martial - adj belonging or relating to, or suitable for, war or the military; warlike."

"art - noun 1 a the creation of works of beauty, especially visual ones; b such creations thought of collectively. 2 human skill and work as opposed to nature. 3 a skill, especially one gained through practice."

I have always considered martial arts to be an expression (of the founder) of which ever art you happen to study.

However, Martial art is not a sport. BUT there are adaptations of martial arts to a sporting environment (ie Judo and TKD = olympics).

Maybe the term Martial Sport would sit better.

-The problem with using the historical definition of "martial arts" means that not only would combat sports not be martial arts, but neither would be most TMA's.

 

[MartialIntent]

-The problem with using the historical definition of "martial arts" means that not only would combat sports not be martial arts, but neither would be most TMA's.

I'd agree that the arts *as practiced today* are very distant relations to the systems that evolved from the fighting histories of the past. However, those systems still exist in today's TMAs but where history and modern practice differs is in motivation, reason and intent. Nowadays we don't train martial arts to kill and consequently a huge chunk of the core TMA teachings have been forsaken. Eventually, the killing techniques will be nothing more than anecdote, frowned upon by modern practitioners.

Respects!