Holes in kenpo

[rmcrobertson]

As one of the crew in Pasadena, oh, stuff and nonsense. But I am starting to find it hilarious (and revealing) that about half the people of forums can't say ANYTHING without slamming the LTKKA.

"Hey, what time is it?
"Well, if you asked that crew in Pasadena, they'd tell you it was 2:35. Those clowns think they know what's right for everybody."

"Well, doctor, what's wrong with my six-year-old? Why's he complaining that his tummy is sore?"
"It looks like Failure to Learn Groundfighting. But if you asked Clyde and the rest of that Pasadena gang, they'd probably say that little Joey needs to have his appendix out. I mean, really. It's like they think medicine's the same for everybody."

If you're taking a decent cooking class--correct me if I'm hallucinating, but don't they presuppose that there are certain concepts and principles of cooking that are the same no matter what particular style of food you're making? Aren't there right ways and wrong ways to, say, stir-fry? Aren't there basic combinations that work tgether, and others that don't, no matter which cuisine?

So riddle me this, Bat Man: why's it called the, "universal pattern?"

 

[pete]

Kenpo12: I read your last post (black and white view...) thinking, "hey, this looks like something i wrote once or twice before on this forum", until i get to the piece where you imply that kenpo is all inclusive of all martial arts.... disagree. unless i am misunderstanding your point, and you are trying to say that the those pieces of other arts not apparently visable in the holy kenpo scrolls can be integrated into your brand of kenpo... then i wholeheartedly agree... the difference being the level of effort to bringit in.

OFK: Even if my kenpo instructor was the master chef of le cirque, souffles ain't kenpo! now defense against agita...

Mister Mike: I think there is more Aikido, Chinna, and the like hidden in Kenpo techniques. 2 ways to find out would be to train with an instructor who has a good handle on this material (as the instructor i am training with), or to cross train in one of those arts and integrate it for yourself.

Rmcrobertson: I'm about 3,000 miles away, and wouldn't know Pasadena from Beverly Hills, but even i see it as presumptuous to think any reference to Pasadena is a reference to LTKKKA. Anywho, the universal pattern is a good reference to support the expansion of Kenpo beyond the limitations of its written curriculum.

pete.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Oh Robert: Of course, there are concepts and principles in cooking that apply in every recipe! Where we disagree is whether cooking principles are the same as Kenpo principles!

My dig at Tatum in the post above is totally different than the nonsense over at the KenpoNet. I do think Tatum is one of the best, if not THE best American Kenpo instructor out there -- and he always has been -- and I believe that he deserves the highest rank he or any one else says he should wear.

My dig is that whenever I hear a claim that "anything any other art does is really just Kenpo and that if OFK and the rest of you knew more Kenpo you would realize this" it is almost always from Clyde, you, Billy, or someone else studying under Tatum.

 

[kenpo12]

Hey Pete,

I think we do agree. My point is that the written Kenpo curriculum my not have every technique in it but the concepts and principles of American kenpo can be applied on all planes. That is why I say, if you crosstrain in another art you will see the similarities. For myself at least I can't pull these techniques out of the air with the concepts and priniciples alone but after dabbling in other systems with kenpo as my base I can apply those technique's into my style of kenpo.

 

[RCastillo]

When I was coaching football I learned, you can't defense everything. You cover the best you can, and hope to out coach the other guy.:asian:

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka
Kenpo12:

I took a cooking class this summer. We made a different dinner every week for several weeks. After just a couple of classes, it became clear to me that hey this cooking stuff -- it's really just Kenpo! After this realization I was able to cancel the angle of disturbance and the soufle came out perfectly!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Come on, it's not all just Kenpo! There is knowledge, wisdom, theory, technique, and basic reality that is outside of the bounds of Kenpo principles, techniques, and methods. This is true even though Mr. Tatum, Clyde, and the rest of the crew in Pasadena may be teaching their students otherwise. .

OFK- Right again! How can anyone say that everything is the same?? Thats like saying that a Porsche is the same as a Ford Escort!! Sure they are both cars, both have tires, seats, and windows, but they dont have the same power and engine! In Kenpo you have locks. In Ju-Jitsu you have locks. Does that mean that the methods of doing them are the same? Of course not.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

As one of the crew in Pasadena, oh, stuff and nonsense. But I am starting to find it hilarious (and revealing) that about half the people of forums can't say ANYTHING without slamming the LTKKA.

Seems to me that there is ALOT of slamming on your end as well. "Why do this when its already there?" "Whats all this realism stuff? Why do you need to do that?" "Why this?' "Why that?"

Mike

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by Old Fat Kenpoka

My dig is that whenever I hear a claim that "anything any other art does is really just Kenpo and that if OFK and the rest of you knew more Kenpo you would realize this" it is almost always from Clyde, you, Billy, or someone else studying under Tatum. [/B]

:cheers:

Mike

 

[kenpo12]

My dig is that whenever I hear a claim that "anything any other art does is really just Kenpo and that if OFK and the rest of you knew more Kenpo you would realize this" it is almost always from Clyde, you, Billy, or someone else studying under Tatum.

Maybe there is a reason for this.

Anyway don't matter whether I agree with you or not because you seem to be making it clear you have an agenda. If you go back and read my posts I'm not saying you shouldn't crosstrain but you don't seem to want to listen anyway.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...guys...I am not busily defending Larry, whose work and ability speaks for itself...I...mentioned....Pasadena....because...OFK....put that....in his....post...

I see that nobody wanted to tangle with the question of why it's called the universal, not the local, pattern.

So to phrase it another way: a bunch of you have read at least parts of, "Infinite Insights." So tell me: would YOU say Mr. Parker presents kenpo as just another style, just another art?

Oh yeah--I forgot. How's about going back to my posts and find me where it is that I wrote the stuff that you're attributing to me, MJS? Or the quotes in which I went to other arts and said, "All very well, but what YOU guys don't know is...?"

Sheesh.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson

Oh yeah--I forgot. How's about going back to my posts and find me where it is that I wrote the stuff that you're attributing to me, MJS? Or the quotes in which I went to other arts and said, "All very well, but what YOU guys don't know is...?"

Yup. Whatever

Mike

 

[Michael Billings]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Michael Billings
-MT Moderator-

 

[Seig]

To quote Mr. Parker, "The techniques are ideas, not hard and fast rules." I've said it before and I will say it again, before you go yammering about what Kenpo does not have, learn what it does. It may surprise you.....
To quote Ron Chape'l, "Don't tell me what I don't know, rather tell me what YOU don't know."


Think about it guys.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Seig
To quote Mr. Parker, "The techniques are ideas, not hard and fast rules." I've said it before and I will say it again, before you go yammering about what Kenpo does not have, learn what it does. It may surprise you.....
To quote Ron Chape'l, "Don't tell me what I don't know, rather tell me what YOU don't know."


Think about it guys.

Good advcie!:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

I see, again, that nobody wants to discuss why it's called, "the universal pattern," or the basic claims of the "Infinite Insights," books, or even point out (a trivial issue, to be sure, but one that keeeps coming up) just where it was that I impolitely attacked other arts.

Hm. Well, since we're not discussing any of this trivial stuff--exactly what is it that we're discussing? I disremember.

 

[MisterMike]

Mister Mike: I think there is more Aikido, Chinna, and the like hidden in Kenpo techniques. 2 ways to find out would be to train with an instructor who has a good handle on this material (as the instructor i am training with), or to cross train in one of those arts and integrate it for yourself.

Pete,

There is probably similarities in every art because there is only so many combinations/techniques you can do with the human body.

But they are applied very differently between some of the arts and some are not found in one or the other at all. Kenpo included.

In the case of Aikido and Kenpo, I have studied the 2 deeply and have investigated the similarities and differences.

The foot maneuvers, for instance. Ayumi Ashi, Tsugi Ashi and Okuri Ashi translate into Step-through, drag-step and step-drag respectfully.

The pinning techniques, Ikkajo, Nikajo, Sankajo, YonKajo and GoKajo. SOME of these are in Kenpo, but others not.

The throwing techniqes, Kotegashi, Irimi, Kaiten, Shiho, Tenshi. I'd say 1 or 2 of these could loosely be translated into Kenpo.

If taking something you see from another system and inserting it into your curriculum makes it Kenpo, I'd have to disagree.

 

[Michael Billings]

The mod warning was not directed specifically at you. Why did you think it was? PM (you do not have one) or feel free to email or call me and we can discuss this.

[email protected]
512.406.5459 8-5 M-F

-Michael

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by Michael Billings
The mod warning was not directed specifically at you. Why did you think it was? PM (you do not have one) or feel free to email or call me and we can discuss this.

[email protected]
512.406.5459 8-5 M-F

-Michael

Yep, it was directed at me, those Austin Kenpoists are trouble!(The Goldendragon encouraged him to do it)

 

[pete]

If taking something you see from another system and inserting it into your curriculum makes it Kenpo, I'd have to disagree.

Mike,

I wholehearted respect your right to disagree and keep your Kenpo as-is...many good/great martial artists do. however, please realize that you'd also be disagreeing with Messrs. Whitson, Wheeler, and Trejo. I recently attended their seminars at the Boston IKCs where practices from Philipino, Russian, and Traditional Chinese martial arts were applied to Kenpo.

Pete.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
As one of the crew in Pasadena, oh, stuff and nonsense. But I am starting to find it hilarious (and revealing) that about half the people of forums can't say ANYTHING without slamming the LTKKA.

"Hey, what time is it?
"Well, if you asked that crew in Pasadena, they'd tell you it was 2:35. Those clowns think they know what's right for everybody."

"Well, doctor, what's wrong with my six-year-old? Why's he complaining that his tummy is sore?"
"It looks like Failure to Learn Groundfighting. But if you asked Clyde and the rest of that Pasadena gang, they'd probably say that little Joey needs to have his appendix out. I mean, really. It's like they think medicine's the same for everybody."

If you're taking a decent cooking class--correct me if I'm hallucinating, but don't they presuppose that there are certain concepts and principles of cooking that are the same no matter what particular style of food you're making? Aren't there right ways and wrong ways to, say, stir-fry? Aren't there basic combinations that work tgether, and others that don't, no matter which cuisine?

So riddle me this, Bat Man: why's it called the, "universal pattern?"

That is all some funny stuff! :rofl: :rofl: