What's your opinion about this "head lock" used in Judo?
Head lock used in Judo
- Thread starter Kung Fu Wang
- Start date
It's a natural entry, and the finish is basically a variation of the hip throw. I've become more a fan of the hip throw (and variations) in the last few years.
TSDTexan
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its just a hit more a hip wheel toss, than a headlock.
Koshi Guruma is a throw.
It is found in Kata Pinan Sandan/Heinan Sandan.
As Ian Abernethy points out in one of his karate throws vids on YouTube
Found about the 2:00 minute mark.
As for my opinion.... throws are a great equalizer to numbers. if 2 on 1 or more.... i want to sweep and throw as much as possible. "Mobility for me, falling on the ground for thee".
Koshi Guruma is a throw.
It is found in Kata Pinan Sandan/Heinan Sandan.
As Ian Abernethy points out in one of his karate throws vids on YouTube
As for my opinion.... throws are a great equalizer to numbers. if 2 on 1 or more.... i want to sweep and throw as much as possible. "Mobility for me, falling on the ground for thee".
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Danny T
Senior Master
It can be useful.
I use it occasionally in sparring. Because I’m tall, it’s easier for me to get the head control than to wrap the body for a standard hip throw.
Does anyone on this thread know the Japanese language (not just the terms you've been taught in your MA training)? I'm curious what the word "guruma" means, and whether it's the same word (in a different form) as "garumi"...and if not, what does "garumi" mean.
I only ever learned these terms as the names of techniques, never the meaning of the individual words.
I only ever learned these terms as the names of techniques, never the meaning of the individual words.
drop bear
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It would be interesting. You might get a bulldog choke out of it.
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JR 137
Grandmaster
The first video is basically wrestling’s head and arm throw.
It’s typically taught to new wrestlers. And it’s not very effective against anyone who’s halfway good. Actually, it rarely works against someone who’s a step above sucks.
Two very simple and effective ways to counter it...
1. “Duck under” their arm as they’re turning. “Duck under” is an actual move from a tie-up, and it’s exactly as it sounds.
2. If you actually get thrown, roll through it using your and your opponent’s momentum once you land.
Looking at the videos, these counters seem unlikely. Actually doing it, they’re very easy.
Note: Somehow the guys in the videos I’ve seen stay on their side and hold the opponent the way they landed. That’ll get you rolled quite often. The best thing to do is turn into your opponent so your chest is on them. We tell the new guys “pecker down” meaning, well, put your package on the mat.
Another thing I like is to grab their arm and put it over their eyes while they’re on their back. It drives people crazy. Take that a step further and put it over their mouth and nose in an actual fight. Can’t do it legally in wrestling (although I was cautioned several times and moved it before the ref stopped the match
).
The stuff I’ve written seems difficult, but it’s really quite easy if you have someone teach you.
The only way a wrestler above outright suck level gets head and armed is from a non-standing position. He’s usually taking a risk with trying something in the non-standing position when he gets caught too.
It’s typically taught to new wrestlers. And it’s not very effective against anyone who’s halfway good. Actually, it rarely works against someone who’s a step above sucks.
Two very simple and effective ways to counter it...
1. “Duck under” their arm as they’re turning. “Duck under” is an actual move from a tie-up, and it’s exactly as it sounds.
2. If you actually get thrown, roll through it using your and your opponent’s momentum once you land.
Looking at the videos, these counters seem unlikely. Actually doing it, they’re very easy.
Note: Somehow the guys in the videos I’ve seen stay on their side and hold the opponent the way they landed. That’ll get you rolled quite often. The best thing to do is turn into your opponent so your chest is on them. We tell the new guys “pecker down” meaning, well, put your package on the mat.
Another thing I like is to grab their arm and put it over their eyes while they’re on their back. It drives people crazy. Take that a step further and put it over their mouth and nose in an actual fight. Can’t do it legally in wrestling (although I was cautioned several times and moved it before the ref stopped the match
). The stuff I’ve written seems difficult, but it’s really quite easy if you have someone teach you.
The only way a wrestler above outright suck level gets head and armed is from a non-standing position. He’s usually taking a risk with trying something in the non-standing position when he gets caught too.
TSDTexan
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The first video is basically wrestling’s head and arm throw.
It’s typically taught to new wrestlers. And it’s not very effective against anyone who’s halfway good. Actually, it rarely works against someone who’s a step above sucks.
Two very simple and effective ways to counter it...
1. “Duck under” their arm as they’re turning. “Duck under” is an actual move from a tie-up, and it’s exactly as it sounds.
2. If you actually get thrown, roll through it using your and your opponent’s momentum once you land.
Looking at the videos, these counters seem unlikely. Actually doing it, they’re very easy.
Note: Somehow the guys in the videos I’ve seen stay on their side and hold the opponent the way they landed. That’ll get you rolled quite often. The best thing to do is turn into your opponent so your chest is on them. We tell the new guys “pecker down” meaning, well, put your package on the mat.
Another thing I like is to grab their arm and put it over their eyes while they’re on their back. It drives people crazy. Take that a step further and put it over their mouth and nose in an actual fight. Can’t do it legally in wrestling (although I was cautioned several times and moved it before the ref stopped the match
The stuff I’ve written seems difficult, but it’s really quite easy if you have someone teach you.
The only way a wrestler above outright suck level gets head and armed is from a non-standing position. He’s usually taking a risk with trying something in the non-standing position when he gets caught too.
Thanks.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #15
It depends on whether your head lock can crash your opponent's structure or not.
In the following clip, if his right elbow joint can point straight down to the ground (not just point side way) and put his opponent's head under his chest, not only his opponent's spine is bending forward, his opponent's spine is also twisting to the left, the end result will be better.
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TSDTexan
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Here you can see it being applied under pressure during one of the live fire sparring matches. Look at the 30 second mark.
As a sidenote...
Gwonkwon Yusul.... the one Korean martial art that i absolutely want to train in... that has no instructors anywhere near me.
It is a fully integrated striking and grappling art (with groundfighting). is the groundfighting as complete as bjj? no... It doesn't need to be. If you want more ground fighting... cross train further in bjj. They recommended it.
But what does it have?
Pressure testing.
Forms... two man/single man.
Judo... with kicking and atemi waza in addition to newaza.
It has solid sequential flow to get someone in a solid position when they are groundfighting.
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dvcochran
Grandmaster
She also has the arm so isn't that more than just a "head lock"?
Interesting. I now want to find a seminar or something to get a taste of this. Any idea if there's an association or some central information point, especially for the US? A quick search didn't turn anything up.
It is. In fact, the arm pulled across (and the structure needed for that) inhibits applying the headlock fully, so it's both more and less than a headlock.
JR 137
Grandmaster
If he can get to that point, it’ll be more effective. If the opponent recognizes the setup early enough, he can simply duck under the arm as he’s initiating the headlock.
If he does get the throw, and if the opponent is halfway experienced, he’ll start rolling out of it before he hits the mat/ground.
Wrestlers generally stop throwing the head and arm after their first few months for good reason- it’s too easy to counter. Against someone who’s new, it works fine enough. In a street situation, sure, use it. But be prepared to get out of trouble if you mess up a little bit.
Rolling through...
