Gun laws in Australia

Status
Not open for further replies.

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,246
As Martialtalk.com is a privately owned board they do have the right to censor certain stuff and the forum rules state what you can and can't say here. Some of the rules say that you can't use profanity or post links to porn or post inappropriate pictures or advertise or post any kind of derogatory comments about a race or ethnicity. As it is, I don't post those kinds of things anyway. In the USA though you are allowed to state your opinion and that is how the country is run and how it evolves, people state their opinion and that influences laws that are passed or repealed. Some people's opinions you might say are absurd but people do have a right to say what's on their mind, as absurd as it might be.

The internet isn't the USA and your rights don't apply here.
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
No, reading your thread told me that you don't seem able to comprehend social cues, consequences, or differentiate contexts. It is not realistic (the way you present your argument there, or here), nor is it accurate.



Please. For one thing, the reason I posted on this thread is due to your completely ludicrous comments on Australian gun laws and culture, as well as a massive slur on the populace here. You're right in that I'd normally leave this area alone, as it's more commonly populated by people who are of the "guns are good, everyone should have 10!" ideology, which I don't agree with, but have no issue with others beliefs on. I'm hardly "hoplophobic" (some information for you… it's not a real phobia, it's a term coined by someone who was very pro-gun, but had no real understanding of psychology, no training thereof, and just wanted a way to label those who went against his beliefs), as the term is designed to infer someone who has an unrealistic/irrational fear of gadgets, most specifically firearms, which is far from the case with myself. I have no love of guns, but that's hardly the same thing (oh, and for the record, I'd actually consider myself an amateur hoplologist… if you want a new term to look up…).



Nah, give me a sword, any day… which, for the record, has about the same amount of restrictions/hoops to jump through to get the licence for as firearms here (specifically Victoria… the laws change from state to state).







With these three quotes, thank you gents, that's precisely what I was meaning when I mentioned to PhotonGuy that his other thread is not realistic. PhotonGuy, listen to them.

I wouldn't recommend bringing a knife or a sword to a gunfight. But aside from that, with your suspicions that I might be autistic or have some other disorder, its you that makes posts that are off topic. For instance, you bring up posts that I make in other boards, some of which I made a long time ago, over a year ago, and you mention them here. If you're going to respond to or mention my posts you should do so in the boards that I make them and you should post your response when I make them, not a year afterwards. Otherwise you're posting stuff out of place and that is unrealistic. And you do seem to like my posts since you read them all.

And about Australia being used as a prison, that is not a slur on the populace, its a historical fact.
 

K-man

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
6,193
Reaction score
1,221
Location
Australia
From what I know, gun laws in Australia weren't all that restrictive until around the mid 80s when there was a rise in violent crime and again in the 90s with all these high profile murders. I don't know what the crime rate in Australia is now but considering the fact that the country was a prison, Im not all that surprised about the crime.
It is a fact that convicts were transported to Australia. That has absolutely nothing to do with crime today. To suggest that you are not surprised that our history is responsible for today's crime is actually quite pathetic.

But let's look at historical facts.

North America was used for transportation from the early 17th century to the American Revolution of 1776. In the 17th century, it was done at the expense of the convicts or the shipowners. The first Transportation Act in 1718 allowed courts to sentence convicts to seven years' transportation to America. In 1720, an extension authorised payments by the state to merchants contracted to take the convicts to America. Under the Transportation Act, returning from transportation was a capital offence.


The gaols became overcrowded and dilapidated ships were pressed into service, the hulks moored in various ports as floating gaols. The number of convicts transported to North America is not verified although it has been estimated to be 50,000 by John Dunmore Lang and 120,000 by Thomas Keneally. These went originally to New England, the majority of prisoners taken in battle from Ireland and Scotland. Some were sold as slaves to the Southern states.


From the 1620s until the American Revolution, the British colonies in North America received transported British criminals. The American Revolutionary War brought that to an end and, since the remaining British colonies in what is now Canada were close to the new United States of America, prisoners sent there might become hostile to British authorities. Thus, the British Government was forced to look elsewhere.
Penal transportation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and ...

During the late 18th and 19th centuries, large numbers of convicts were transported to the various Australian penal colonies by the British government. One of the primary reasons for the British settlement of Australia was the establishment of a penal colony to alleviate pressure on their overburdened correctional facilities. Over the 80 years more than 165,000 convicts were transported to Australia.
Convicts in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And some convicts in America were sold into slavery.

So, is the crime rate for New England higher than the rest of the US?
NEW ENGLAND CRIME RATES OVER FIVE YEARS
I don't think so.

And about Australia being used as a prison, that is not a slur on the populace, its a historical fact.
You comment is a slur and it relates to the historical fact.
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,235
Reaction score
1,073
Location
Melbourne, Australia
As Martialtalk.com is a privately owned board they do have the right to censor certain stuff and the forum rules state what you can and can't say here. Some of the rules say that you can't use profanity or post links to porn or post inappropriate pictures or advertise or post any kind of derogatory comments about a race or ethnicity. As it is, I don't post those kinds of things anyway. In the USA though you are allowed to state your opinion and that is how the country is run and how it evolves, people state their opinion and that influences laws that are passed or repealed. Some people's opinions you might say are absurd but people do have a right to say what's on their mind, as absurd as it might be.

You've missed the point entirely. Frankly, it doesn't matter what you think your rights are under the US Constitution here… this is not the US (I'm talking about the site itself) even though it's based (physically) there. It exits in the international domain known as the internet… and is a private entity, which means that you have to abide by the rules here, which might be the same, similar, or absolutely nothing to do with anything related to the US Constitution.

Oh, and you might want to read the rules a little more carefully… you're also not allowed to attack members, to fraud bust, to art-bash, or many other things. I'd also point out that your comments about Australia (and your guesses as to it's crime rate… you do, after all, start by saying you don't know anything about it…) and it's past can be classed as an attack or derogatory comment on the nation itself. The simple fact is that you might feel that your comments are protected (as it's just your "opinion") due to the fact that you're American, but that means exactly nothing here.

I wouldn't recommend bringing a knife or a sword to a gunfight.

Who the hell said anything about that?!?! I just mentioned to Steve that I prefer owning a sword to owning a gun… this is what I mean when I say you don't seem able to take context into account.

But aside from that, with your suspicions that I might be autistic or have some other disorder, its you that makes posts that are off topic. For instance, you bring up posts that I make in other boards, some of which I made a long time ago, over a year ago, and you mention them here. If you're going to respond to or mention my posts you should do so in the boards that I make them and you should post your response when I make them, not a year afterwards. Otherwise you're posting stuff out of place and that is unrealistic. And you do seem to like my posts since you read them all.

You're not that special, I read most posts here by most people. And really, my comments are due to your behaviour, which has shown the patterns I mentioned, including the PMs you sent me, so it's been a cumulative account. There's no point going back over all your threads to answer them then, as this is not addressing the thread topics themselves, but your behaviour that is shown through them. Frankly, if you aren't suffering from some disorder, then you have some very serious issues when it comes to social interaction.

And about Australia being used as a prison, that is not a slur on the populace, its a historical fact.

No, it was a slur based on ignorance and using a historical fact as it's basis.
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
The internet isn't the USA and your rights don't apply here.

MartialTalk is a privately owned website and as such they do have the right to censor certain stuff. As it is, they don't allow racism or profanity among other things but the worst they could do if you don't meet their guidelines is ban you. They can't press charges or anything. Furthermore I would not say anything racial on MartialTalk or anywhere else for that matter since Im personally against racism, and neither will I post anything else that MartialTalk prohibits, although I do have other strong opinions which I will express, on MartialTalk and in other places.
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
Who the hell said anything about that?!?! I just mentioned to Steve that I prefer owning a sword to owning a gun

Good for you. Although your sword won't be that useful against a gun.

Frankly, if you aren't suffering from some disorder, then you have some very serious issues when it comes to social interaction.

Yes, that I do.
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,235
Reaction score
1,073
Location
Melbourne, Australia
MartialTalk is a privately owned website and as such they do have the right to censor certain stuff. As it is, they don't allow racism or profanity among other things but the worst they could do if you don't meet their guidelines is ban you. They can't press charges or anything. Furthermore I would not say anything racial on MartialTalk or anywhere else for that matter since Im personally against racism, and neither will I post anything else that MartialTalk prohibits, although I do have other strong opinions which I will express, on MartialTalk and in other places.

Thoroughly and completely besides the point.

Good for you. Although your sword won't be that useful against a gun.

Thoroughly and completely besides the point.

Yes, that I do.

I'd get myself tested, if I was you… specifically for Aspergers', possibly for autism, honestly. Your inability to see any nuance is just going to make interactions difficult for you here, and elsewhere. You seem to have an idea that "This is the way it is", with no variance… here, you're arguing about my using a sword in a gunfight… which has nothing to do with anything I've said… you continue to insist on what you feel your rights or ability to speak freely are… while ignoring entirely the fact that none of that applies here, so not argument about it is relevant or of any effect whatsoever.

If you're genuinely not suffering from either syndrome (you might be, just not diagnosed presently, or you might not be at all), then you really need to stop, listen to what you're being told, take on board the fact that other people have other values and ideas, and go from there. If you're not able to do that, your time here will be nothing but frustration (for yourself and everyone else), which will lead to growing tension, and likely to bans down the road.
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
Thoroughly and completely besides the point.



Thoroughly and completely besides the point.



I'd get myself tested, if I was you… specifically for Aspergers', possibly for autism, honestly. Your inability to see any nuance is just going to make interactions difficult for you here, and elsewhere. You seem to have an idea that "This is the way it is", with no variance… here, you're arguing about my using a sword in a gunfight… which has nothing to do with anything I've said… you continue to insist on what you feel your rights or ability to speak freely are… while ignoring entirely the fact that none of that applies here, so not argument about it is relevant or of any effect whatsoever.

If you're genuinely not suffering from either syndrome (you might be, just not diagnosed presently, or you might not be at all), then you really need to stop, listen to what you're being told, take on board the fact that other people have other values and ideas, and go from there. If you're not able to do that, your time here will be nothing but frustration (for yourself and everyone else), which will lead to growing tension, and likely to bans down the road.
Right whatever.
 
Last edited:
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
Thoroughly and completely besides the point.

Besides whose point, yours? Who are you to decide what the point is and isn't? If anything, its you that gets off the point, bringing up old posts from other boards.

I'd get myself tested, if I was you… specifically for Aspergers', possibly for autism, honestly. Your inability to see any nuance is just going to make interactions difficult for you here, and elsewhere. You seem to have an idea that "This is the way it is", with no variance… here, you're arguing about my using a sword in a gunfight… which has nothing to do with anything I've said… you continue to insist on what you feel your rights or ability to speak freely are… while ignoring entirely the fact that none of that applies here, so not argument about it is relevant or of any effect whatsoever.

If you're genuinely not suffering from either syndrome (you might be, just not diagnosed presently, or you might not be at all), then you really need to stop, listen to what you're being told, take on board the fact that other people have other values and ideas, and go from there. If you're not able to do that, your time here will be nothing but frustration (for yourself and everyone else), which will lead to growing tension, and likely to bans down the road.
Right, whatever.
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,235
Reaction score
1,073
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Besides whose point, yours? Who are you to decide what the point is and isn't? If anything, its you that gets off the point, bringing up old posts from other boards.

Besides the point of the discussion, besides the point of the rules as you're reading them, besides the point of your beliefs that because you're American, you can apply American constitutional rule to your conduct here, and more.

Completely and thoroughly besides the point. As well as, well, inaccurate.

Right, whatever.

You have to admit that your posting style here is certainly showing all the signs that would be expected… it's not out of the realms of possibility that it'd be remarked upon… and who knows? Maybe I'm right.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
21,721
Reaction score
7,620
Location
Pueblo West, CO
ATTENTION ALL USERS:

The topic of this thread is Australian gun laws. It is not about any individuals personality. Let's keep it on topic please.

Thank you.
Mark A Cochran
Dirty Dog
MT Senior Moderator
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
ATTENTION ALL USERS:

The topic of this thread is Australian gun laws. It is not about any individuals personality. Let's keep it on topic please.

Thank you.
Mark A Cochran
Dirty Dog
MT Senior Moderator

Thank you.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
22,364
Reaction score
7,116
In regards to criminals and guns.

The laws make guns harder to get. And more costly to use. The lack of guns in society means police have more resources to deal with gun violence.

Australia has a culture of responsible gun ownership.

So gun crime incidents are less.

There is a difference between a beat cop investigating a crime. CIB investigating and a task force investigating.
 
OP
P

PhotonGuy

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 14, 2013
Messages
3,808
Reaction score
463
States where its easier to get and carry guns such as Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming, Oregon, Indiana and Pennsylvania have really low crime rates. States where its harder to get guns and all but impossible to legally carry guns such as New Jersey, California, Massachusetts, and New York have a much much higher crime rate.
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
22,364
Reaction score
7,116
States where its easier to get and carry guns such as Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming, Oregon, Indiana and Pennsylvania have really low crime rates. States where its harder to get guns and all but impossible to legally carry guns such as New Jersey, California, Massachusetts, and New York have a much much higher crime rate.

Yeah but you can drive a gun from one state to another. So police resources are still stretched to combat illegal gun carry. You can't drive to get an illegal gun. You have to fly it in. And that is a big risk.

So if you are the sort of Rambo that wants a gun for the ring reason here. Chances are you will struggle to get one. Even a crook won't sell you one. Because of the trouble he will get into.
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
21,110
Reaction score
6,628
Location
Covington, WA
States where its easier to get and carry guns such as Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming, Oregon, Indiana and Pennsylvania have really low crime rates. States where its harder to get guns and all but impossible to legally carry guns such as New Jersey, California, Massachusetts, and New York have a much much higher crime rate.

These states are also much more densely with larger urban centers.

I'd also be curious to see Arizona's crime rate. My impression is that it's on the high side but I may be mistaken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,246
So if you are the sort of Rambo that wants a gun for the ring reason here. Chances are you will struggle to get one. Even a crook won't sell you one. Because of the trouble he will get into.

Nonsense that's the entire point of a black market
 

K-man

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
6,193
Reaction score
1,221
Location
Australia
States where its easier to get and carry guns such as Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming, Oregon, Indiana and Pennsylvania have really low crime rates. States where its harder to get guns and all but impossible to legally carry guns such as New Jersey, California, Massachusetts, and New York have a much much higher crime rate.

That can also be the chicken and egg situation. Is the crime rate higher because of the gun laws or were the gun laws introduced as a response to higher crime rates?

But according to this list your theory doesn't hold up.

The most dangerous states in America

Tennessee, Nevada, Alaska, Oklahoma, Maryland, Florida, Louisiana, Delaware, South Carolina, and New Mexico are the states with the most violent crime.

So let's look at gun laws ...

10 states with the strictest gun laws | Deseret News

Pennsylvania, Illinois, Rhode Island, Maryland, Hawaii, Connecticut, New York, Massachusetts, New Jersey and California.

Only one State, Maryland, is on both lists. Pennsylvania according to you is a state with lower gun restrictions but according to this list it is in 10th spot on the strictest laws list and none of the states you list as most violent are in the top ten by this list.

Then we can look at gun violence.

States With the Most Gun Violence - 24/7 Wall St.

Georgia, Arkansas, Missouri, New Mexico, South Carolina, Mississippi, Arizona, Alabama, Alaska and Louisiana.

None of the states is on the restricted list and obviously Maryland has reduced the level of violence involving firearms by introducing its laws as it is not in the top ten.

But, Arizona is in your list and is listed top 10 for violence in this list.

What if we look at murder rates?

Murder Rates Nationally and By State | Death Penalty Information Center

Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Michigan, South Carolina, Missouri, Maryland, Delaware,Tennessee and Arkansas.


In the list of states with the most murders just one of the strictest gun law states appear in the top ten.

And finally to look at the most gun friendly states.

#10 - Wisconsin | 10 states with the most lenient gun laws | Deseret News

Wisconsin, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Arizona, Alaska and Utah.

Three of these in the top ten for murders and four in the top ten for violent crime.

I think these figures show the flaws in the arguement that more guns and less restrictions on firearms reduce the crime rate and vice versa.
:asian:
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
22,364
Reaction score
7,116
Nonsense that's the entire point of a black market

No a black market won't sell to any idiot unless they can reasonably get away with doing so. Or they will eventually either sell to a cop. Or sell to someone who will talk to a cop and at that point they are done.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,246
No a black market won't sell to any idiot unless they can reasonably get away with doing so. Or they will eventually either sell to a cop. Or sell to someone who will talk to a cop and at that point they are done.

You obviously have no idea what your talking about. So nobody can buy a gun on the street anywhere in Australia huh? BS you have plenty of illegal guns and gangs and drugs and crime just like everywhere else in the world.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top