Grandmother Hit With Taser

[Archangel M]

When you are dispatched to a call...you go. When the caller says "Grandma wants to die and she took a bunch of pills"..that sounds "suicidal" to me. Agree with it or don't, our job here in the US is to take suicidal people to the hospital to talk with the docs/psych's. If she pulls a knife when I am trying to deal with what it is my JOB to deal with then that has to be dealt with.

I guess I don't know where this is going. Grandson should have minded his own biz and let grandma kill herself?

 

[sgtmac_46]

We have a mobil crisis team where I work. They call the PD any time they're going to eval. someone who is a risk, ie: violent history, etc. There are times, when PD is dealing with a mentally ill person and they'll request us to call the MC team, who will respond and do an eval. usually only if the person is a client of theirs.

Personally, I think they're pretty useless, because it seems to me that they go out to eval. the same people all the time, for the same issues. Are they really giving these patients any help?

And you said the key words......'they call the PD' meaning they rely on the PD to secure the scene.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Okay, taking it from the article it doesn't say she was suicidal as in she said she was going to kill herself, she said she wanted to die, different things if you listen to it. The two things are different as in her intent. She may have had no intention of killing herself but was wanting death to come quickly from her illness. This indicates her frame of mind. Remember she threatened the police with the knife, she didn't try to cut herself with it. You may think it's nit picking but looking at things like this indicate frame of mind and how you deal with the situation. It may not have been a suicide call at all so the actions may have been inappropriate. Expressing a wish to die when in pain and seriously ill isn't an indication of suicidal tendancies. People have assumed that she was intent on killing herself rather than waiting to die, perhaps she was suidical but what if she wasn't but was wishing that the dying process came sooner rather than later.It's also being assumed that she must be mentally ill because she had expressed a wish to die, for many, that they want to die when in pain and seriously ill is a sign of commonsense and assisted suicides are legal in a few countries which a lot of people will travel to so that they as they say can die with dignity. There was no dignity for this lady was there?

Moving her and taking her from her home aren't the same thing then? taking her fro her home would involve moving her, no?

As I said I'm taking what I see from the same facts as you guys but you see a suicidal mentally ill woman who got violent with the police while I see a woman who could want to end her life at home with dignity but her relative panicked and involved the police in something that has left them looking bad. Put yourself in the woman's position instead of the police or medics, you are sseriously ill, dying probably as you are 87, in pain and don't want to have your life prolonged in pain, you express the wish to die and then police and whoever turns up in your home, threatening to move you so having nothing much to lose you take a knife and threaten them. Dying at home is a very dear wish of many sick and/or old people.

I didn't say what I think was the truth I'm trying to point out that from the 'facts' printed you see something that I don't and I did say I was taking what was printed for my post, as everyone else has. As printed by the media, it was a disaster and could have been avoided.
The truth? who knows. I was doing what everyone else was doing, talking from the 'facts' printed up but because it's a different view from everyone else oh gosh, I'm getting the criticism lol. But there you go, keeps everyone amused.

Semantics.......if someone says they 'want to die', and is holding off those talking to her with at bay with a knife, hashing over the fact that they didn't specifically use the word 'suicide' is a bit silly.

Personally, however, I think folks should have the right to commit suicide if they see fit........but society has determined that government should intervene in the issue of someone attempting to do harm to themselves. So we're stuck with that reality.

 

[sgtmac_46]

When you are dispatched to a call...you go. When the caller says "Grandma wants to die and she took a bunch of pills"..that sounds "suicidal" to me. Agree with it or don't, our job here in the US is to take suicidal people to the hospital to talk with the docs/psych's. If she pulls a knife when I am trying to deal with what it is my JOB to deal with then that has to be dealt with.

I guess I don't know where this is going. Grandson should have minded his own biz and let grandma kill herself?

Exactly! And, if instead of intervening, and getting grandma to the hospital, they had decide to spend a long period of time talking with grandma, and she had taken a lethal dose of drugs, and the time wasted resulted in her death, the PD would be being blamed for not acting decisively.

It's often a lose/lose with the PD, as their job is to respond to crisis situations and make the best of bad choices...........choices other folks obviously can't make for themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have called to begin with.

 

[MJS]

Okay, taking it from the article it doesn't say she was suicidal as in she said she was going to kill herself, she said she wanted to die, different things if you listen to it. The two things are different as in her intent. She may have had no intention of killing herself but was wanting death to come quickly from her illness. This indicates her frame of mind.

Bzzzzzz..Wrong! Are you reading the same article here? This is what was said:

Varner's grandson called 911 on Dec. 22 and told the dispatcher his grandmother "wanted to end her life" and that he was concerned she had taken some unknown medicine.

There ya go. I put it in bold for ya too. Clearly states that she wanted to end her life.

Remember she threatened the police with the knife, she didn't try to cut herself with it.

True. Not sure where you're going with this though. Of course, any time theres a weapon involved, its possible that it could not only be turned on the people coming to help, but also the person holding it.

You may think it's nit picking but looking at things like this indicate frame of mind and how you deal with the situation. It may not have been a suicide call at all so the actions may have been inappropriate. Expressing a wish to die when in pain and seriously ill isn't an indication of suicidal tendancies. People have assumed that she was intent on killing herself rather than waiting to die, perhaps she was suidical but what if she wasn't but was wishing that the dying process came sooner rather than later.It's also being assumed that she must be mentally ill because she had expressed a wish to die, for many, that they want to die when in pain and seriously ill is a sign of commonsense and assisted suicides are legal in a few countries which a lot of people will travel to so that they as they say can die with dignity. There was no dignity for this lady was there?

Her mindframe indicates that she was determined to kill herself. The article didn't mention whether or not she was sick, so nobody knows her condition. Fact is, until some law is passed, suicide is a police and ems issue and its not legal, whether you do it or pay a doctor to do it.

Moving her and taking her from her home aren't the same thing then? taking her fro her home would involve moving her, no?

Ok, I'll give you that one, however, I'd bet that she'd have said the same thing to the EMS workers that she said to the cops. She was attempting to take her life. Again, until a law is passed that suicide is legal, the womans relative called the police and EMS and they had to respond. And if it means holding her down and restraining her, then so be it. It happens all the time where I work, as well as other PDs.

As I said I'm taking what I see from the same facts as you guys but you see a suicidal mentally ill woman who got violent with the police while I see a woman who could want to end her life at home with dignity but her relative panicked and involved the police in something that has left them looking bad. Put yourself in the woman's position instead of the police or medics, you are sseriously ill, dying probably as you are 87, in pain and don't want to have your life prolonged in pain, you express the wish to die and then police and whoever turns up in your home, threatening to move you so having nothing much to lose you take a knife and threaten them. Dying at home is a very dear wish of many sick and/or old people.

Its still suicide. You're trying to justify her wanting to die in her own house, when in fact she was trying to kill herself. Just because you're seriously ill, doesnt give you the right to kill yourself. Once again, suicide is not legal. One of my Aunts isn't well, and is always in and out of the hospital. She hasnt tried to kill herself. If she wants to die at home that bad, then let it be on natural causes, not suicide. So in your opinion, even though her family called 911, you feel that once they go there, the family should have said, "Oh, we're sorry, it was a mistake. My relative wants to die, so she OD'd on pills, but thats ok. Shes in alot of pain, so **** it, just let her die in her own house." Please.

I didn't say what I think was the truth I'm trying to point out that from the 'facts' printed you see something that I don't and I did say I was taking what was printed for my post, as everyone else has. As printed by the media, it was a disaster and could have been avoided.
The truth? who knows. I was doing what everyone else was doing, talking from the 'facts' printed up but because it's a different view from everyone else oh gosh, I'm getting the criticism lol. But there you go, keeps everyone amused.

Sure, it could have easily been avoided, had this woman not acted like a fool, and pull a knife.

As for the article...like I said, its vauge at best. Some people are trying to defend her actions, while others are trying to show that her actions were not those of someone thats stable mentally.