Goals for the first dan--and retention

[StudentCarl]

I see some new black belts continue to train and others who drift away within six months of receiving their belt. I suspect this is partly because the latter group probably viewed earning a black belt as their goal--the finish line--and moved on to other goals away from the dojang. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, but I suspect some did not develop new goals within Taekwondo, and that contributed to their departure.

I would like to know what goals you encourage your first dans to pursue, and likewise what goals were most important to you as a first dan.

Thanks,
Carl

 

[dancingalone]

I would like to know what goals you encourage your first dans to pursue, and likewise what goals were most important to you as a first dan.

I actually discourage seeking a specific rank as a goal. Rank should occur coincidentally with other benchmarks, rather than as a target in of itself. Rank is also an external measure of approval, which has its place but really is shallow compared to what a self-aware student should be benchmarking his growth against internally.

I ask my dan students to specialize in a certain field, perhaps they want to focus on a weapon like tonfa or perhaps they want to become an 'expert' in a couple of patterns. Choosing areas like these to grow in are better for longterm exploration because they are open-ended. The more knowledgeable and capable you become in them, the more you realize there's even more within them to learn and master. And ultimately, the benefits will spillover onto the other facets of martial arts practice.

 

[dancingalone]

likewise what goals were most important to you as a first dan

I'm afraid I wasn't that self-aware when I got my very first black belt. Sort of a consequence when you earn it as an average kid. I just wanted to win a lot of trophies in point sparring and I enjoyed showing off during public demonstrations.

It wasn't until a few years later that I began to think a bit more about martial arts and my expression of them in more detail.

 

[msmitht]

Many schools have the "black belt is your goal" motto. Or "we are a black belt school" is posted on the wall.
Training the body and mind should be your goal. Forget about the black belt club/sign up/conversion gimmicks. If you have a good school they will sign up anyway. Concentrate on improving the students technique and attitude. Have a set curriculum so that you can show them what they will be learning from 1st-2nd poom/Dan. Remind them that black belt is just the beginning. Be a martial artist and train allong with your students. Offer a special class once a week for the black belts (no color belts allowed, regardless of whatever club they are in).
Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head...

 

[Manny]

I see some new black belts continue to train and others who drift away within six months of receiving their belt. I suspect this is partly because the latter group probably viewed earning a black belt as their goal--the finish line--and moved on to other goals away from the dojang. I'm sure there are other reasons as well, but I suspect some did not develop new goals within Taekwondo, and that contributed to their departure.

I would like to know what goals you encourage your first dans to pursue, and likewise what goals were most important to you as a first dan.

Thanks,
Carl

I've seen this beefore, in my dojang the groos of the people is children and some kids, afther 3 years of training achieving belt afther belt and reaching black belt they felt a circle is closed and afther that sadly training is the same thing with little improvement, it seesm classes are designed to reach black belt level and then..... nothing new, so some kids feel boring the training, it's the same thing day afther day.

Of the last examiniation in past july several kids drop tkd are are doing something else, for example little ulio who is a 8 years old who was training soince 5 I gess, now is training soccer, Regina a nice cute 11 years old girl (very gifthed) who now is doing dancing class, and another girl who made his firsth poom too some two yeara back and dhe never returned dojang.

Yes yjhere some kids that keep coming to training like the Tapia brothers, very dedicated kids but as you mention something hapes with others kids that they got boreda baout the same thing afther 3-4 years of training.

Bailando solo says something interesting, we must see another goals like maybe weapons training, os competing training or self defense, in my case I have put my goals in teaching men my way of doing TKD and doing some judgin in the tournaments and offcourse learning new stuff from another sources like crosstraining,internet and meeting another martial arts students or senseis.

One of my goals is to train in poomse and compete in my city in poomsae oe even go to regionals, this is something I want to do sadly sambonim is to dedicated to kids that as no time to coach me in the poomsae.

There are sometimes we need to adjunst or make changes inthe way we train to stay in TKD training and make this funny and try to enhance our capabilities.

I would like to have inside my dojang poomsae/self defense only classes and some kind of weapon classes too but this is something I know won't happen so I will see in another places where I can find whay I'm loooking for.


Manny

 

[Thesemindz]

A black belt knows how to play karate. It gets you in the door. No more hand holding, you know the rules, you know the moves, now you get to play the game. Black belt is only the beginning, and only barely that. It's like going through trade school, good for you, you learned how to weld. Now go stand next to the guy who's been a welder for fifty years. You may be on the line, but you're still the new guy.

Black belt should always be framed as the beginning of your journey. It just takes five years to get started.


-Rob

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

...
Black belt should always be framed as the beginning of your journey. It just takes five years to get started.
-Rob

I don't agree with "always", but I know what you're saying.

However, life is short, and you can only do so many things. My goal is to get comfortable in TKD doing all the basic kicks, including tornado, axe kick, and spinning hook kick. That for me involves a physical goal of increased flexibility (and I won't get into the static / dynamic discussion here ). I love TKD, but once I have accomplished my current TKD goals, I may try to accomplish other goals such as running 10 km under 40 minutes, or cycling 100 miles. I'm sure I'll always study TKD for fun, but I can only focus on so many goals at once, and TKD may fall off the list and just be "fun" with no major goal.

 

[puunui]

I would like to know what goals you encourage your first dans to pursue, and likewise what goals were most important to you as a first dan.

I try very hard to make every color belt reach at least 1st Dan. If they do not make it to 1st Dan, it wasn't because I didn't try my best to get them there. Once they make it to 1st Dan, I treat them like adults. Whether they continue or not is totally up to them. When I was a 1st Dan, I didn't have any mapped out goals other than to continue to train.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I think part of the issue of retention beyond 1st dan is cost. The testing fees can be high for BB testing, and students may feel after the hard work and high cost of 1st dan....maybe it's time for a break...then while on break they think of the similar cost for 2nd dan and don't come back.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Our club really focuses on letting 1st dans start to 'tailor' the art to them personally. I started training tkd with one of my best mates. He is 6 foot tall, and of big build and does a lot of weight training and has poor flexibility in the hips due to a motor bike accident. Then there's me, Im 6 foot 2", skinny as a rake, very flexible and a long distance runner but with nowhere near the physical strength or presence of my mate. As coloured belts we were treated the same, learn the same things and try and use the same things despite our obvious physical differences. Since we both reached first dan our instructor regularly shows something to my mate and looks at me and says "dont you try this, with your build it wont work" and vice versa. We are now able to take all the things we have learned and start to develop our own "style" based on what we are good at and what works for us. This has just opened up a whole new world for me and I have never enjoyed my training so much. I dont believe "one size fits all" wit martial arts and there comes a time when its time to start tailoring all you've learnt to suit you. Thats where Im at currently as a 1st dan and its keeping me very focused.

 

[Balrog]

Too much focus on First Degree as a goal and not a waypoint along the journey.

 

[andyjeffries]

I think part of the issue of retention beyond 1st dan is cost. The testing fees can be high for BB testing, and students may feel after the hard work and high cost of 1st dan....maybe it's time for a break...then while on break they think of the similar cost for 2nd dan and don't come back.

Then find a way to reduce those costs? Kukkiwon fees aren't that high, so if the "testing fees" are high, then find a grandmaster/master more willing to help at a lower price?

I don't know if anyone else has worked it out, but basically, averaging it out over the time between grades it costs a black belt practitioner $50-90 per year in Kukkiwon fees, less than $2 per week.

2nd Dan - 1 year - $90 - $90 per year
3rd Dan - 2 years - $120 - $60 per year
4th Dan - 3 years - $150 - $50 per year
5th Dan - 4 years - $300 - $75 per year
6th Dan - 5 years - $350 - $70 per year
7th Dan - 6 years - $450 - $75 per year
8th Dan - 7 years - $550 - $78 per year
9th Dan - 8 years - $700 - $88 per year

I don't know how much you guys pay for your monthly training fees (maybe that's a different thread, if people are willing to post it) and annual insurance/membership costs, and I know that a lot of examiners add on a grading/testing fee, but it doesn't seem like a huge amount to me.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Agreed, high belt testing costs are not KKW costs, but school costs. I understand that many schools may use the lessons as almost a "loss leader", and make it back on the testing...regardless, if a person pays closer to $1000 than $100 for BB testing, they will think about whether another BB testing is worthwhile.

 

[jthomas1600]

Our club really focuses on letting 1st dans start to 'tailor' the art to them personally. I started training tkd with one of my best mates. He is 6 foot tall, and of big build and does a lot of weight training and has poor flexibility in the hips due to a motor bike accident. Then there's me, Im 6 foot 2", skinny as a rake, very flexible and a long distance runner but with nowhere near the physical strength or presence of my mate. As coloured belts we were treated the same, learn the same things and try and use the same things despite our obvious physical differences. Since we both reached first dan our instructor regularly shows something to my mate and looks at me and says "dont you try this, with your build it wont work" and vice versa. We are now able to take all the things we have learned and start to develop our own "style" based on what we are good at and what works for us. This has just opened up a whole new world for me and I have never enjoyed my training so much. I dont believe "one size fits all" wit martial arts and there comes a time when its time to start tailoring all you've learnt to suit you. Thats where Im at currently as a 1st dan and its keeping me very focused.

To be honest, this will be the determining factor as to whether or not I continue at my school. I'm unable to attend class for months at a time (totals over half the year) so I have no expectation of advancing beyond black belt. However, I would continue to train at this school regardless of belt advancement if I'm learning and growing. My instructor is also ranked in Korean Judo and Hapkido, if I could start to benefit from that and not just continue working on acrobatic kicks I would stay. I'm in my mid forties, I enjoy throwing people and grappling, I'm not too interested in spending the rest of my martial arts career doing flying side kicks and 540 tornadoes etc.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Many schools have the "black belt is your goal" motto. Or "we are a black belt school" is posted on the wall.
Training the body and mind should be your goal. Forget about the black belt club/sign up/conversion gimmicks.

Those gimmicks are used to capitalize on the propensity of students to quit after receiving their BB. Usually, they are also geared around making as much money off of the student as possible in as short a time as possible. I often wonder if those schools have a well developed curriculum for yudanja.

If you have a good school they will sign up anyway. Concentrate on improving the students technique and attitude. Have a set curriculum so that you can show them what they will be learning from 1st-2nd poom/Dan. Remind them that black belt is just the beginning. Be a martial artist and train allong with your students. Offer a special class once a week for the black belts (no color belts allowed, regardless of whatever club they are in).
Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head...

Good thoughts!

Daniel

 

[StudentCarl]

I often wonder if those schools have a well developed curriculum for yudanja.
Daniel

That's the root of my question, as the road for colored belts is well-publicized. Even in the school I attend, there's a display of all of the belts from white to first dan (had me wondering the other night if the display should go higher). I know my goals reach further, but I wondered what roadmap others provide. Does 'treating them as adults', as Puunui writes, mean there is no curriculum other than 1st dan form except as they choose? If not a defined curriculum, what do you communicate to your first dans that you expect of them?

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

That's the root of my question, as the road for colored belts is well-publicized. Even in the school I attend, there's a display of all of the belts from white to first dan (had me wondering the other night if the display should go higher). I know my goals reach further, but I wondered what roadmap others provide. Does 'treating them as adults', as Puunui writes, mean there is no curriculum other than 1st dan form except as they choose? If not a defined curriculum, what do you communicate to your first dans that you expect of them?

Pretty much, all there is is continuing to train unless your school has grafted on a weapons program. Being an instructor of a weapon art, I seriously question the benefit of such grafted on programs, but that is another story entirely.

Daniel

 

[ralphmcpherson]

To be honest, this will be the determining factor as to whether or not I continue at my school. I'm unable to attend class for months at a time (totals over half the year) so I have no expectation of advancing beyond black belt. However, I would continue to train at this school regardless of belt advancement if I'm learning and growing. My instructor is also ranked in Korean Judo and Hapkido, if I could start to benefit from that and not just continue working on acrobatic kicks I would stay. I'm in my mid forties, I enjoy throwing people and grappling, I'm not too interested in spending the rest of my martial arts career doing flying side kicks and 540 tornadoes etc.

This is exactly how I feel. I am 36 years old and the "flashy" stuff doesnt interest me in class time. At home, or training with mates I enjoy bouncing around doing all the jumping and spinning stuff but class time for me is for 'bread and butter' techniques and developing my own style within the art. Our GM has a hapkido background and we tend to focus a lot more on hapkido techniques once first dan and spend less time doing the fancy stuff. This has helped me heaps with staying focused beyond black belt.

 

[puunui]

8th Dan - 7 years - $550 - $78 per year
9th Dan - 8 years - $700 - $88 per year

7th to 8th Dan time in grade is now 8 years, and 8th to 9th is 9 years. But there is no fee for 8th and 9th Dan testing.

 

[puunui]

Does 'treating them as adults', as Puunui writes, mean there is no curriculum other than 1st dan form except as they choose?

Treating them like adults means exactly that. No more hand holding. If you come to class you come to class because of your own motivation. If do not want to come to class then you don't have to. And of course there is a curriculum past 1st Dan. If anything, I have too much material to cover.