Forms in Kenpo.

[arnisador]

I know that Mr. Parker set out to make a modern and scientific art. We hear so much nowadays about kata/forms not being practical; what was Mr. Parker's rationale for having forms in his art?

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Forms not rational?? I dont know what Mr parkers rationality was behind having forms but i know why i like them. Maybe its just me, but i see my skill level grow MOST while doing/working on my forms, A form/kata should be perfect, or close to perfect depending on skill level, nothing i do is perfect, but the forms help, for me especially with foot work, the way kenpo forms all start and end in the same spot, one or 2 minor missteps throws your whole direction and timing off, 3 inches too far here there and suddenly youre ending your kata facing 3'oclock instad of 12'o'clock like you should have. Katas are skill builders.

 

[GouRonin]

Vehicles to teach motion. That's scientific.

 

[WilliamTLear]

The begining forms are routines in which a practitioner is intended to practice the basics of the system while in motion.

Basics Include:

Stances
Maneuvers
Blocks
and Strikes
(as well as Specialized Moves)

Billy Lear

 

[GouRonin]

I wasn't aware you could even read...

 

[WilliamTLear]

You'd better go get your tire-iron and hope that I turn around.

istols:

Billy Lear "Dog Slayer"

 

[Goldendragon7]

Well......... Since you asked....

The first 4 "Forms" (Short & Long 1 - Short and Long 2) are considered the "Dictionaries of Motion" to our system.

The rest of the "Forms" (Short & Long 3,4,5,6) are considered the Encyclopedias to our system.

The "sets" are considered the appendices to the system.

Each play an important role in the knowledge filing of all the main principles and actions.


:asian:

 

[donald]

To:Golden d7,
Having never witnessed short4, I have a couple of questions.
Is it a pared down version of L4? I mean like S2 compared to L2,
or is it a bit deeper than that? The instructor I know used to teach S4, but dropped it. Also since we are on the subject of forms. I believe it was you who posted a response alluding
to the weapons you're familar with? Do you teach your weapons,
i.e. sai, with a P.K.S. slant? Or are you teaching totally original
forms, i.e. P.K.S./Tracy kenpo Staff Set? Thank you for your time, and consideration...
Salute in Christ,
Donald :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Short four is half of Long 4 in other words you only do one side of each technique but it is a new method of form architechure.... the techniques alternate first one technique right the next technique left. Few know of this form which has never been instituted into the curriculum. It is an optional set for most.

The weapons sets I teach are the normal sets that are in the curriculum such as the staff set, nunchaku set, club set, form 7 (clubs)and form 8 (knives). I also teach alternate forms with a variety of other weapons with of course, kenpo slant.
:asian:

 

[donald]

Mr.Golden d7,
First let me say thank you for your response to my post.
Now to the issue at hand!!! At the end of your response.
You said you teach the "other" weapons forms with a kenpo slant.
Does this mean you teach the "traditional" katas, but use
P.K.S., applicational practices? Thanks for your time...
Salute in Christ,

Donald

 

[Goldendragon7]

In Ed Parker's American Kenpo we use the terminology "Forms..... and Sets" to describe what the Japanese systems call "Kata".

I feel it would be disrespectful to take an Okinawan form an "Kenpoize it" (change the stances etc.) because it was developed for a reason. We could surely do that but further modification would still be needed so I don't do it at all.

As a direct student of Ed Parker's for many years he has taught many how to "engineer" or develop our own Forms and Sets (empty handed or with any weapon we choose).

Yes, there are guidelines to follow such as; which direction to follow, methods of execution, paths, dimensions, angles, and themes. One must examine the weapon of choice for the form and determine just what the weapons use will be for this form and go from there.

We also can use our current forms and put a weapon in our hands and translate the movements to be used for the weapon that we possess.

I hope this helps......


:asian:

 

[arnisador]

Are Form and Set synonomous?

 

[Goldendragon7]

"Forms" make up the dictionaries (Short & Long 1 & 2) (Definitions) and encyclopedia's (Short & Long 3, 4, 5 ,6 + 7 & 8)(Information Research) of the system...

"Sets" are the appendices.... or where you search for further info on specific material. i.e., Sets focus on basic categories such as:

Stance - thus Stance Set 1 & 2
Blocks - thus Blocking Set 1 & 2
Strikes - thus Striking Set 1 & 2
Finger Techniques - thus Finger Set 1 & 2
Kicks - thus Kicking Set 1 & 2
Coordination - thus Coord. Set 1 & 2


:asian:

 

[Jim Micozzi]

I have heard of this form but have never been able to get it written out. If anyone has it written out, I would be forever grateful if you would email a copy to me...

Thanks.

 

[Klondike93]

There is a short form 4? When was this created? Tell me more.

:shrug:

Chuck

 

[AvPKenpo]

From what I understand most schools have dropped short 4 because of its confusing relationship with long 4. We teach both of them on the same list, 1st Black.

How many of your schools still teach both?

Michael

 

[Goldendragon7]

Mr. Parker revealed this around 1985 or '86. It was explained to a few that wished to play with the idea and (at that time a new look at the 4).

The shortend version makes for a nice brown belt form for competition, and structural redesign study without "changing" the form greatly. It is actually fun to do.

:asian: :asian:

 

[D.Cobb]

Originally posted by Goldendragon7

"Forms" make up the dictionaries (Short & Long 1 & 2) (Definitions) and encyclopedia's (Short & Long 3, 4, 5 ,6 + 7 & 8)(Information Research) of the system...

"Sets" are the appendices.... or where you search for further info on specific material. i.e., Sets focus on basic categories such as:

Stance - thus Stance Set 1 & 2
Blocks - thus Blocking Set 1 & 2
Strikes - thus Striking Set 1 & 2
Finger Techniques - thus Finger Set 1 & 2
Kicks - thus Kicking Set 1 & 2
Coordination - thus Coord. Set 1 & 2


:asian:

I have seen where people call Short 1 the blocking set, but by your definition this is not so. What then would be the difference between them?
--Dave:asian: :asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Although short form #1 uses blocks, and could be "called" a blocking set due to the 4 blocks used by both arms within the Form while traveling from 12 to 9 to 3 to 6 o'clock., it is a totally differnt "Pattern".

The Blocking set #1 for example is preformed from a horse stance and executes 6 different blocks all with one arm then the other, in its standard use.

:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

Starting with teh right side first

Upward Block
Inward Block
Outward Block
Downward Block
Cover
Push Block
Cover

the same is repeated on the left side and then done with both arms simultaneoulsy.

It is a great set and gets even better when variable expansion is employed with it.