Figure I

[ShortBridge]

For those of you who have learned the Baat Jaam Dao, I find it interesting that the "figure I" or Yat Ge is performed in two distinct ways based, it would seem, on lineage.

If you're willing, I'd love to hear which way you do it and what you may have been told about it.

I also find it interesting that it's sometimes referred to in English as "Figure I" since they letter I doesn't mean anything in Chinese, but I won't let that distract me.

 

[Same Trick]

1 in Chinese is pictured as a horizontal line

 

[wckf92]

1 in Chinese is pictured as a horizontal line

I think he said "I", not "1"

 

[wckf92]

For those of you who have learned the Baat Jaam Dao, I find it interesting that the "figure I" or Yat Ge is performed in two distinct ways based, it would seem, on lineage.

View attachment 32973View attachment 32974

If you're willing, I'd love to hear which way you do it and what you may have been told about it.

I also find it interesting that it's sometimes referred to in English as "Figure I" since they letter I doesn't mean anything in Chinese, but I won't let that distract me.

Hard to say without more context. Where is this in your knife form? What precedes and follows the pics you posted? What does "Yat Ge" mean?
Looking forward to the discussion! Its been fairly quiet here for a long time. Thanks for posting!

 

[ShortBridge]

1 in Chinese is pictured as a horizontal line

I think he said "I", not "1"

Right. This is the explanation that I got before. Logically there would be a character for the #1 and it would be a slash, but I have heard or seen this referred to as a "figure i", which doesn't make any sense. I don't know what "Yat Gi", "Yut Gui" means and it and I didn't mean to focus on that.

 

[ShortBridge]

I've learned this form from 2 different sources and I've gone out and looked at as many other lineage versions as I can find. There are other differences, but this one stood out as the biggest and I find it interesting that it is more difficult to draw parallels to empty hands than Jaam, Biu, Gaan, Kwan, etc.

Depending on how it's done, I can imagine it having the intent of Laap/Bong, Laan, or Po Pai sao.

I know this is a somewhat guarded form, so I was hoping to just hear some thoughts without getting into lineage squabbles or other MA social media traps.

I will share that I have decided to do it the opposite of the way I learned it for the month of May, just to see if it helps me understand it better.

I don't claim to know "right" or "best" and you won't hear me claim that my SiGung had the one true anything. Legitimately interested in any informed viewpoints.

 

[wckf92]

I've learned this form from 2 different sources and I've gone out and looked at as many other lineage versions as I can find. There are other differences, but this one stood out as the biggest and I find it interesting that it is more difficult to draw parallels to empty hands than Jaam, Biu, Gaan, Kwan, etc.

Depending on how it's done, I can imagine it having the intent of Laap/Bong, Laan, or Po Pai sao.

I know this is a somewhat guarded form, so I was hoping to just hear some thoughts without getting into Lineage squabbles or other MA social media traps.

I will share that I have decided to do it the opposite of the way I learned it for the month of May, just to see if it helps me understand it better.

I don't claim to know "right" or "best" and you won't hear me claim that my SiGung had the one true anything. Legitimately interested in any informed viewpoints.

Well, I'd like to offer a comment or observation, but I don't see the top pic anywhere in my knife form, and the second one looks somewhat similar to a movement I know...which I would probably call a kwan do type of shape/movement. But, without seeing your two shapes in a dynamic sense, hard to say either way.

 

[ShortBridge]

"Kwan Do", interesting.

You and I default to the same shape, which should be no surprise, but the top picture is very common looking around at how various lineages play the knives and I'd like to understand it a little bit better.

I am going to do it that way this month, just for the challenge and to see if I discover anything, but I haven't posted here in a while either and I thought it was worth asking.

 

[wckf92]

"Kwan Do", interesting.

You and I default to the same shape, which should be no surprise, but the top picture is very common looking around at how various lineages play the knives and I'd like to understand it a little bit better.

I am going to do it that way this month, just for the challenge and to see if I discover anything, but I haven't posted here in a while either and I thought it was worth asking.

For the first pic, are you "beginning" with the knives like that? Or is it what is normally seen as flipping one knife to the reverse grip position on an if/as needed basis?

My gut instinct tells me that pic 2 would be more resistant to impacts than pic 1.

Let us know how it goes with a followup post! Looking forward to hearing/seeing more.

Nice looking knives by the way!

 

[ShortBridge]

For the first pic, are you "beginning" with the knives like that? Or is it what is normally seen as flipping one knife to the reverse grip position on an if/as needed basis?

Flipping

My gut instinct tells me that pic 2 would be more resistant to impacts than pic 1.

Let us know how it goes with a followup post! Looking forward to hearing/seeing more.

I agree, but maybe I just don't understand it, thus the question. When I do it this way (which I am doing this month) I feels more like a Laap or a receiving hand than a structural barrier. Maybe someone can confirm. Honestly, at this point, it also makes me uncomfortable to pull the pointy bit down toward my hip, like I would with a Laap Sao, though. I've just learned not to write things off until I've given them time and hopefully heard something from someone who feels like they understand it better.

Nice looking knives by the way!

Agree. They aren't mine, but the fit and finish is excellent.

 

[hunschuld]

Picture two is close to correct. Picture 1 is wrong. Do not take my word you can find the answer yourself. The movement is meant to provide a long area of coverage from an incoming attack or a large area of jamming and control if moving in on a weapon.

Start with knives parallel in front of you and have someone swing a broom stick at you in a random manner. Picture 1 is the end position when you are flipping to reverse grip. You will quickly find you do not want to do this against a bladed weapon. The reverse grip is for close to the body use.

Picture 2 is incorrect as posed. Resting the knife on top of the forearm as pictured will not protect your forearm from the incoming strike.

Take picture 2 and instead almost stack the blades on top of each other but overlap the hand guards as shown. Blades should be out in front of the forearm. Both blades should be tilted in a wing formation so that the tips are going forward to meet incoming target. In a straight up and down pattern or tilted back as both blades in picture 1 and the bottom blade in picture 2 a heavy incoming strike may actually push the blade further back and get through the cover and strike you.

Try against a pole or broomstick and then try against a baseball bat . You will quickly find the correct positioning. Then try a Kwan Do if available

 

[ShortBridge]

FYI, the photos were posed, not in motion. I just wanted an illustration for this discussion and asked my student to stand there while I took a low-light cell phone photo.

Thanks for your reply. I'm getting some confirmation bias from you guys, which I appreciate and will happily take all I can get.

It does seem very common to flip them, though and I would love to hear from someone who does. I won't say "right or wrong", just trying to understand other perspectives.