Fighting outside of the dojo

[Tsuki-Yomi]

I have a student that is fighting outside of the dojo. The first time, which was about 4 months ago he was at a bar, and claimed he got into an arguement with another person, and the bouncer came up and hit him in the eye, then put him in a half nelson. He turned up at my dojo with a black eye, and claimed he didnt even try to fight back. This time, he posted it all over his facebook page. Claims two friends jumped him and he had to kock them both out. He now has an infection on his hand. I would like to hear some thoughts on this, as I dont really know how to approach this and I have had a talk with him already where I told him to stay out of trouble.

 

[jarrod]

i'd give him the benefit of the doubt until i had a reason not to. sometimes, crap happens.

jf

 

[dancingalone]

Interesting problem. Is he a respectful and mature student inside your school? Or does he exhibit behavior that makes you question his fitness to continue to learn with you?

 

[punisher73]

At the very least, have a good long conversation about the legal ramifications of getting into fights and talking about how part of self-DEFENSE is being aware of your surroundings and environment and avoiding trouble in the first place.

 

[jks9199]

At the very least, have a good long conversation about the legal ramifications of getting into fights and talking about how part of self-DEFENSE is being aware of your surroundings and environment and avoiding trouble in the first place.

That's about all you can do, unless you're going to baby sit him 24-7.

If you are concerned enough about what he's doing -- you always have the option of kicking him out.

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

Is he a respectful and mature student inside your school? Or does he exhibit behavior that makes you question his fitness to continue to learn with you?

Yes, he is respectful or I wouldnt teach him, but I feel he is fighting because he isnt getting respect, not because he needs to defend himself. We have all encountered people that talk trash like " you think that would work on the street"? Or you think that Karate stuff works for real"? Learning to blow that off is also part of becoming a good martial artist, and in my opinion he hasnt learned to do that.

 

[kingkong89]

Ive ran into some similar problems with my students we tell them all the time dont fight outside the dojo because it is a whole different ball game so to speak try tellin him to avoid the conflict the best he can the greatest weapon a martial artist has on them is their head try talking your way out helps most of the time

 

[terryl965]

I would tell him to walk away and then only defend himself, what I do not understand is the term fighting because it seems he is only defending himself, there is a difference in both.

 

[jarrod]

Yes, he is respectful or I wouldnt teach him, but I feel he is fighting because he isnt getting respect, not because he needs to defend himself. We have all encountered people that talk trash like " you think that would work on the street"? Or you think that Karate stuff works for real"? Learning to blow that off is also part of becoming a good martial artist, and in my opinion he hasnt learned to do that.

is your school involved in competitions? that might be a good avenue for him to prove himself. i used to tell my students that if they wanted to fight to show how tough they were, let me know & i'll put them in a ring & they'll even get paid for it rather than face arrest.

jf

 

[Andrew Green]

I have a student that is fighting outside of the dojo. The first time, which was about 4 months ago he was at a bar, and claimed he got into an arguement with another person, and the bouncer came up and hit him in the eye, then put him in a half nelson. He turned up at my dojo with a black eye, and claimed he didnt even try to fight back. This time, he posted it all over his facebook page. Claims two friends jumped him and he had to kock them both out. He now has an infection on his hand. I would like to hear some thoughts on this, as I dont really know how to approach this and I have had a talk with him already where I told him to stay out of trouble.

Some people just have bad luck, other people just like to start fights with them.

If your school markets itself as teaching self-defence or fighting it would seem rather silly to kick out anyone that actually needed those skills because they where the sort of person that others start fights with.

If he is actually starting fights then you might want to have a look, but if he is defending himself punishing him for doing so would not be the best approach IMO.

 

[girlbug2]

He actually said that two friends jumped him? Seriously, whose friends jump them? That is the only part of the story that would cause me concern.

It may not be a bad idea to give the whole class a little lecture about avoiding the three "S"s: Going to Stupid places, with Stupid people, to do Stupid things. It might turn on the light bulb for your student, you never know.

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

At the very least, have a good long conversation about the legal ramifications of getting into fights and talking about how part of self-DEFENSE is being aware of your surroundings and environment and avoiding trouble in the first place.

The thing is this individual is old enough at twenty six years old that I shouldnt have to sit down like mommy or daddy to discuss such things. I also try not to get involved with students personal lives, such as who they hang out with, or where they go as once again my students are all above the age of twenty five and can look out for themselves in that respect.

If your school markets itself as teaching self-defence or fighting it would seem rather silly to kick out anyone that actually needed those skills because they where the sort of person that others start fights with.

I see what you are getting at, but this guy is not some scrawny high school student, he is 6ft 2 and all of 190lbs. If it was a real self defence situation fine, great you defended yourself, and I am happy you got through it, and I did my job as a teacher. But this is the second time in less than 4 months where he claims he got jumped and he did nothing to recieve it. Bad luck? Could be, but I am beginning to doubt it.

 

[kungfu penguin]

not to mention you said he bragged about it on facebook myspace etc... seldefense you would not do that a fight the hormones are going and you want to crow to the world about it i suspect he is not as innocent as he says

 

[Telfer]

Claims two friends jumped him and he had to knock them both out.

Friends???

You mean they were play fighting and he suddenly got serious?

 

[xJOHNx]

The thing is this individual is old enough at twenty six years old that I shouldnt have to sit down like mommy or daddy to discuss such things. I also try not to get involved with students personal lives, such as who they hang out with, or where they go as once again my students are all above the age of twenty five and can look out for themselves in that respect.

I see what you are getting at, but this guy is not some scrawny high school student, he is 6ft 2 and all of 190lbs. If it was a real self defence situation fine, great you defended yourself, and I am happy you got through it, and I did my job as a teacher. But this is the second time in less than 4 months where he claims he got jumped and he did nothing to recieve it. Bad luck? Could be, but I am beginning to doubt it.

Your job as a teacher goes further than that in my opinion.
You are right that you don't have to babysit him and tell him where he should go out.
But, as a teacher you are not only showing him some techniques, you are his teacher. As other topics already pointed out the huge impact martial arts can have on not only the fitness level. I think it is not only essential, but sometimes mandatory to know what your students have between their ears and that you are willing to talk to them about that. The impact my sensei has in my life is more than that of a guy who teaches me some cool moves. He's also guides me in life (without him knowing so) as martial arts are a part of my core-being. The dojo doesn't stop when I pass the doors, it gives me inspiration and dedication to continue what I'm doing.

I'm not advocating that you should turn your dojo into a hugfest or self help group. But sometimes a quick word of a formal talk of five minutes could help the both of you. He might learn something and you might find serenity/balance.

 

[seasoned]

I have a student that is fighting outside of the dojo. The first time, which was about 4 months ago he was at a bar, and claimed he got into an arguement with another person, and the bouncer came up and hit him in the eye, then put him in a half nelson. He turned up at my dojo with a black eye, and claimed he didnt even try to fight back. This time, he posted it all over his facebook page. Claims two friends jumped him and he had to kock them both out. He now has an infection on his hand. I would like to hear some thoughts on this, as I dont really know how to approach this and I have had a talk with him already where I told him to stay out of trouble.

For the sake of your other students, and the reputation of your school, have a heart to heart with him. If these are standard rules that are taught during class, remind him, and consider this his first warning.

 

[Ken Morgan]

How long has this gentleman been training? With you?

I can’t find it, but my Sensei, Kim Taylor, told us of a study he read some years ago, (University of Ottawa?), that talked about aggressiveness in the MA. Basically it said for the first six to twelve months of MA training aggressiveness increased in subjects, after that it decreases at a huge rate. As a general rule MA tend to be less aggressive then those in the general population.

Sorry I wish I could get my hands on it.

This guy sounds like he misses the point, and needs to be read the Riot Act.

 

[Tsuki-Yomi]

I'm not advocating that you should turn your dojo into a hugfest or self help group. But sometimes a quick word of a formal talk of five minutes could help the both of you. He might learn something and you might find serenity/balance.

Good stuff John, thanks. I talked with a friend of mine Shihan Dan Ordoins about it and your advice was pretty much dead on with what he said. Anyway, good replies everyone, and thanks.