Favorite Form?

[chrispillertkd]

I'm very impressed by people who learn multiple sets of patterns. I have been doing the Chang Hun tuls for 22 years now and only learned a few of the Kukkiwon forms when I was in college (Taeguk 1 & 2 and Koryo). For me the problem wasn't keeping the forms straight or remember a greater number of forms, it was the execution of the techniques themselves. The chamber position for blocks in WTF TKD is very different than in ITF TKD. Stances are slightly different. The way you generate power by shifting your mass is different. The execution of some kicks are different. I was able to make the switch over to WTF techniques but after college went back to the ITF way of doing things completely (instead of just on vacations visiting my instructor). Oh, I still keep practicing some of the footwork we learned and kicking combinations, but the real difference in techniques is something that one would have to work to keep separate, and that's not something I have the time to do.

My hat's off to those who are able to manage training in both ITF and WTF Taekwon-Do and keep the two systems separate technically. Truth be told, though, the people I have met who do both really only do one, training in two pattern sets while performing the techniques identically.

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

Anyway, to try to get this thread back on topic I will say that it's nearly impossible for me to nail down one single form that would be my favorite. There are just too many great ones.

For color belt patterns I'd say Do-San, Joon-Gun and Hwa-Rang are my favorites.

Black belt patterns would include Ge-Baek, Choi-Young, Yon-Gae and Moon-Moo.

Overall, it's probably Ge-Baek and Hwa-Rang (but Moon-Moo is sweet once I'm done with those darn slow motion reverse hooking kicks!).

Pax,

Chris

 

[dancingalone]

I'm glad no feelings are hurt. Straight to the meat of it then....

Maybe you should be more specific on you use of the term pivot. Did you mean pivot as in turning the body- from the A side of the bar of the form to the B side of the form, or maybe, turning onto the mainline, from the B side of the bar of the form. or, pivoting the support foot while kicking?

I mean a body turn. Turning smoothly while maintaining proper balance and STRUCTURE is an under-appreciated nuance of the martial arts. Various styles (and even within styles) of TKD have differing ideas on where the turn originates from: hips, shoulders, head or feet.

The patterns I seen the all differ in this respect and that's before we even consider stance shifting, chambering, body part acceleration, or body tension. So I think it impractical to try to practice another set of forms. Sure you can learn the choreography of a new form, but you'd likely be performing them with the same basics as in your own system. Now if you're one of those talented people who can keep it separate in your mind and body, good for you. I'm not sure everyone on this thread appreciates how big an impact these "subtle" nuances can have when you are trying to milk that last 10% efficiency out of your performance and muscle conditioning.

I believe Brandon used a music analogy above of scales, saying each set of forms is another scale and therefore practicing them all improves him as a musician. I would say each set of forms is actually more like a different instrument, say a clarinet and a violin. A supremely talented musician may be able to reach world class on both instruments. It certainly can be done. But if you are a mere mortal, you are better off dedicating yourself to one instrument and striving to master that.

Someone else asked about crosstraining. When you cross train, do you practice TKD with perhaps hapkido which would be a good blend indeed. Or do you cross train TKD with tang soo do which would be curious, somewhat useless and even perhaps disastrous?

I was refering to the Chinees masters of antiquity, the samuria class-who were also MA'st practice both empty hand close combat, with the bow and arrow and of course the sword. This (the sammurai) does in fact date back at least 900 years. King David- made his warriors practice form with thier sword. I suggest you do some more researc, there are plenty of reliable text out there to cooborate my statements, You should maybe do some more researching, as do I, and most of the regular poste's on MT

Hmm, this paragraph is a bit of a mess. Samurai weren't Chinese and to my knowledge they did not practice empty hand kata ala the Okinawans. I don't know where King David comes into the picture either and I won't pretend to know what type of martial arts the Biblical Judeans practiced. I stand by my statement that saying the "ancient masters practiced forms before their battles to the death" is perhaps inaccurate and overly romanticized. It's not important to our discussion however, so I'll let it drop.

Once again on the pivot, I refer to the above question in paragraph 1. I do't see knowinfg two sets of forms as counter productive and bad for you muscle memory. You have't provided cooboration that it is. The MA'st I 've witnessed are quite competent of doing both sets of forms and understanding the concepts of each form. To short change their ability is not fair to them.

I have restated my position a bit above using the pivot as an example. If everyone in your circle has such high ability, you are a fine bunch indeed. Good for you and I mean that with no sarcasm.

My years of service and my "lofty rank" is a the forefront of most of my knowledge, not to mention reading studying the history (mainly Korean) for the 28 years. Sir, I am still a student of MA after all these years. Don't consider arguement , just an intlectual discussion

No, I am pleased to participate on this forum. It's one of the better ones I'm read. May I suggest delving within some other sources than Korean for information about martial arts history and evolution? Korean sources are somewhat problematic due to the deeply political parentage from which they spring.

Choosing to be anonymous is certainly your choice. But I don't think anyone who posts on this forum will ever attack you. I just think it would give more credit to your posts. My accompliments do carry forward through the intenet. As do others accomplishments who regularly post on MT. Oh my gosh Lurkers...:lurk: NO WAY j/k
Still, Knowing some of your background would help define why you are so passionate and opinionated.

It's not the MT posters I am worried about. As for my posts, I believe they can stand for themselves without the backing of who I am or who my teachers were or what trophies I have won. In the end, it's the content of what I post that speaks towards my currency on this board, not my dan ranking. I understand you feel differently and that's fine.

Good day to you, sir. I'm glad there are no hard feelings.

 

[Miles]

I have a number of favorites:

ITF favorite: Chung Mu (pre-Sine wave)
TSD favorite: Bassai
Kukki-TKD favorite: Han Soo

I don't actively train in ITF style anymore but can still rattle off some of the hyung through Gwang Gae.

TSD hyung was learned as a tribute to the former TSD dojang I taught TKD. The instructor was excellent in his teaching of the hyungs.

Miles

 

[zDom]

Just to clarify (and I apologize for the tangent discussion),

Speaking for myself — and I believe Kwanjang's folk, too — basic movements are all in "one style" of TKD (probably most resembling, but not completely like, ITF style TKD).

That is to say, hip movement, basic techniques, chambers DON'T change just because we are doing the WTF patterns — or vice versa.

Two sets of patterns, but ONE style of doing them.

 

[Kacey]

Sometimes thats just what we have to do. Not everyone thinks or works the same. Its not fair to try to make them either. If your way of thinking works for you and your students, then your doing great. If someone elses way of thinking is working for them.. then good for them too.

I agree. Kata, tul, palqwe, whatever you call them - are a method of making students practice. I could teach without patterns. I could teach without line drills (performing instructor-determined individual techniques or sets of techniques in a repetitive fashion, moving up and down the floor). I could teach without step-sparring. BUT students would be bored. They wouldn't stay in class - and those that did almost certainly wouldn't practice outside of class. I use as many different activities as I can to interest, and reach, as many different students as I can, and to give students as many ways to practice outside of class as I can think of, for the benefit of my students (and myself... because, of course, if I'm going to teach all those things, I have to be able to do them myself). If other methods work for you - great! But I choose not to limit myself, much less my students, by only practicing and presenting those activities I like and am good at; I present everything I can, and I am constantly looking for other ways to present the same skills and information.

To return to the topic of the thread - as I said before, Ko-Dang is my favorite, because it is deceptively easy to learn. I'm also very fond of Won-Hyo, as I learned it to test for green belt, which was, I think, my best gup testing.

 

[Muwubu16858]

although i know many forms from both tkd and tsd, my favorite has to be from neither sect, Aragaki Sochin. That one my teacher picked up from Yoon Kwai Byeong (jidokwan).

 

[Kwanjang]

Hmm, this paragraph is a bit of a mess. Samurai weren't Chinese and to my knowledge they did not practice empty hand kata ala the Okinawans. I don't know where King David comes into the picture either and I won't pretend to know what type of martial arts the Biblical Judeans practiced. I stand by my statement that saying the "ancient masters practiced forms before their battles to the death" is perhaps inaccurate and overly romanticized. It's not important to our discussion however, so I'll let it drop.



Off the thread topic (sorry) Yeah.... That one came out wrong I was a little tired when I wrote that. I realize Samurai weren't Chinese. Come on dude, I was merely trying to make the point (Though I did a poor job of it) Form is a part of martial training.... since the time of King David to Alexander the Great(I know they where in different times).. Just to clarify, my studies are not just limited to the Korean arts I enjoy studying Asian history in general.

Back on thread topic, I like Yu Shin and Jitae they are cool.








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[phatbway]

Blue Belt form; Joon Gun Hyung. Awesome! That's mine.

Thanks