Fancy Kicks

[Zepp]

So, about those fancy jumping, spinning, and jump-spin kicks that some of us learn in certain arts: what do you think of them?

Are they a completely impractical waste of time?
Are they usable in a confrontation outside the dojo or ring?
Would you use them in a tournament?
Is there some value to practicing them?
Have you tried them, Sam I Am?

Let us know.

 

[chufeng]

My personal bias is to keep my feet under me for as long as possible...especially now that I have such lousy degenerative disease in my knees...

...but, I learned and trained in the "fancier" kicks when I was younger...It certainly helps you develop a sense of distance, beacuse if you are off by a little bit, you'll go down...

...It is a tremendous aerobic workout...try tornado kicks across a gymnasium on one side and then back on the othjer side...if you aren't sucking wind, you are in tremendous shape (or you aren't doing the kick with everything you've got)...

My favorite kicks are front-snap kick, front heel-thrust kick, side-kick, and stopping-foot kick...not very glamorous, but effective, at least for me.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[ob2c]

There are more practical ways to develope agility and timeing. And, from what I've seen, even in point sparing those super fancy kicks seldom work. In the real world they'll get you flamed.

 

[Kope]

They develop balance, strength, flexibility, agility, timing ... and they look damn good when done right.

We're martial ARTISTS after all . . . and if they are part of the heritage of your art, then you should be able to do them as well as you can.

My style has a few, and they are fun . . . but i'd never use a jumping one in a real fight. Some of the spinning ones, however, are a good way to gain a serious surprise factor. Front kick followed by a spinning side kick, for example, has gotten me more than few sparring matches.

If you're fast and accurate, they're a great surprise weapon. If you're off, you're going down.

So basically, I'd use them in the ring, but not in the street. I train them because they are part of the history of my style.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I voted maybe . . .


Why?

Because, you see if I know it in theory, then it helps me understand how it can be used against me.

Also, being a large guy, putting my foot upside or near someone's upper chest or head, makes them keep their hands up and respect the threat. THis then makes it so much easier to pull off the low line kicks, which I like so much more.

Just my opinion

:asian:

 

[karatekid1975]

I'm in between with this poll.

I love fancy kicks. My school regularly practices them as well has the basic ones. I even do trick kicks. Great exercise, and they look great when done right But would I do them in a real fight? No. Even an untrained fighter can catch a "flying leg" and dump ya on your butt. It's a no-brainer." I'd stick with the low basic kicks in a real situation.

 

[Yari]

I'm a firm believer that "fancy kicking" is for agility and flexability, and that in a fight the kicks would be used under the belt.

But I've taken out an attacker using a high mawashigeri. I didn't even thin about it. The opening was there, and it just happened. So since I was flexible i could use it. If I wasn't I'd probably have used somthing else.

/Yari

 

[Jester]

Not sure about this one, they are great fun to do and they look great which I think are good enough reasons to train in them. But as for the practicalities as it stands at the moment I might use them in competition (that's a big maybe though) but I would never even think about using them in a real life situation.

But..... is that more to do with the fact that I'm not very good at them. I've seen martial artists do these techniques with devestating speed and power, would they use them in real life?

 

[Kenpodoc]

Personally I like a good head kick. Bend your opponent over and kick them in the head or better yet, Knock them to the ground and kick them.

Frankly I admire fancy athletic spinning and flying kicks. I don't believe they would be much good on the street (too much risk) but in the safe enviroment of the studio they are fun to watch. I'm sure they're good exercise and great coordination practice but I'm too old and need to keep my injuries to a minimum.

Jeff :boing2:

 

[yilisifu]

I'm with Chufeng and KenpoDoc.

 

[Cryozombie]

I once saw Video of a TaiKai (or maybe it was Just a seminar) where a TaeKwondo Blackbelt did some fancy jump spinning kick and the Bujinkan Blackbelt standing there just sort of pulled him out of the air and slammed him onto the ground.

In the air with no foundation with the earth seems like a bad place to be in a fight. I think it looks good if you are doing some fancy Kata to a Musical number for points... If that's the focus of your training in those techniques, Go for it!

 

[Tigertron]

Originally posted by Technopunk
I once saw Video of a TaiKai (or maybe it was Just a seminar) where a TaeKwondo Blackbelt did some fancy jump spinning kick and the Bujinkan Blackbelt standing there just sort of pulled him out of the air and slammed him onto the ground.

In the air with no foundation with the earth seems like a bad place to be in a fight. I think it looks good if you are doing some fancy Kata to a Musical number for points... If that's the focus of your training in those techniques, Go for it!

No NO NO NO!

That is NOT the way things are as far as flying/jumping kicks are concerned. The momentum is already in force when you are airborne. You don't need the feet planted on the ground by then.

Just because that particular TKD Blackbelt got intercepted, does not in itself rebutts the utility of spinning kick.

It is mostly those who CANNOT perform such technique that tend to poo-poo the technique.

A spinning kick is a very powerful strike. One shot to the head and you are down for the count. Just like any other technique, you tend to use a combination of strikes to create a setup or entry then allow you to execute the "drive home" strike. You seldom just throw a jumping spining kick for the heck of it.

 

[Tigertron]

Originally posted by Kope ..... Front kick followed by a spinning side kick, for example, has gotten me more than few sparring matches. ...

What's a spinning side kick?

 

[A.R.K.]

With the exception of a good stretch and great aerobic conditioning. Useles impo in a real fight.

:asian:

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Zepp
Are they a completely impractical waste of time?

No, the kicks are good for a lot of various reasons and make a well rounded practictioner.

Are they usable in a confrontation outside the dojo or ring?

Most likely not. You must face your work and while jump/spinning you'd better hope you don't get caught in mid air.

Would you use them in a tournament?

Yes I have, and have scored from time to time. They can only be used 2 maybe 3 times and then you had better find something else.

Is there some value to practicing them?

Of course, Timing, and appreciating the power that comes with each kick should be learned.

Have you tried them, Sam I Am?

Yes, and I've stated my position on them.

 

[A.R.K.]

The reason I hold that they are of little use in most real confrontations is personal observation. In all the uses-of-force I've had on-duty I have never once used any type of kick. I have however, used numerous knee spikes.

:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

"Training in them is good for agility and timing"

Voted for that one.

To ob2c, no, I can't think of any other way to improve agility and timing. The jumping kicks also develop power. Look at how other athletes in different sports. They consist of ballet, plyometrics, power and Olympic lifting, tai chi (just the exercises), and guess what... A lot of hip movement.

Chances of using a super jumping high kick in a real fight is slim. Very slim. I have used it a couple of times and it worked, but the only reason I even did that was I saw a huge opening and the both of us were very tired anyway. But again, in a fight, simplicity. Simplicity is the height of cultivation. But my motto goes, if you can kick high fast, you can kick low faster.

Using a jumping or fancy maneuver in fighting is like someone with the ball jumping in the air in football. You jump in the air, you have no force behind you. Then crack, you're on your back, wondering what happened. A lot of fumbles happen when the guy is in the air and gets drilled. The time comes where you do have to jump or hop, especially over those pesky defensive backs but all in all, it's rare. However, with fighting, the chances of using a jumping kick is even less than someone with the ball jumping in the air. Maybe as a touchdown dance you can jump around all you want, but jumping around after a victory in a street fight... Not a very smart or moral thing to do.

The only reason I even teach the people at the club high kicks is mainly for those reasons, for indirect training. It not only helps in combat, but in regular athletics as well. Correct plyometric training could shave .2 off your 40 yd. dash, make you be able to cut better, jump higher and explode in the air faster. Makes you explode off the blocks, it helps your balance, it helps your coordination.

 

[MartialArtist]

Oh yeah, they look cool, but that's not the main reason. It's kinda a thing you can do just to forget about everything. For instance, almost all college and NBA basketball teams have a "fun" practice once in a while, maybe after a big win, or for the first practice of the season. When I lived in Chicago (when the Bulls were good), they would have fancy slam dunk contests, full-court buzzer shot contests, etc. How many times do you see anyone doing a double-pump, between the legs, reverse dunk near the key in a game? Or a desperation shot from full court? But any sane teacher will make one thing obvious = Not for combat

 

[moromoro]

in a street fight there is absolutely no use for high kicks, in a tournament situation thats another story

thanks

terry

 

[Tigertron]

I am reading a lot of crap in this thread.

If high kicks and flying kicks can be successfully used in the ring, against well trained, well experienced opponents who are definitely better at defending against such attacks, HOW THE HELL they can't be used on the street against Joe Budlight 6-pack?

If you can't kick to the head and take someone down, then just speak for yourself.