"Every cop should learn BJj" Do you agree?

[drop bear]

There are a lot of unsupported suppositions in that post.

From my experience.

 

[lklawson]

No. You are suggesting it is different?

I'm suggesting that there are, literally, hundreds of different systems being taught. The U.S. is apparently not your small rural department. there are hundreds of thousands of different departments and countless versions of DT here in the US. it changes and evolves on a regular basis and instructors, and instruction itself, is brought in from any number of different sources. I have seen some that was good and some that was not. But you are there and not here. Frankly, you simply lack the experience with what goes on over here in to comment intelligently on it. Just because you've read something somewhere or watched a YouTube video simply does not make you an expert on the potentially tens of thousands of different variations of what is being taught. Heck I know of one apartment in particular that was teaching one thing a few years ago and is now teaching something completely different.

To be blunt, you are making pronouncements from a position of ignorance.

 

[drop bear]

I'm suggesting that there are, literally, hundreds of different systems being taught. The U.S. is apparently not your small rural department. there are hundreds of thousands of different departments and countless versions of DT here in the US. it changes and evolves on a regular basis and instructors, and instruction itself, is brought in from any number of different sources. I have seen some that was good and some that was not. But you are there and not here. Frankly, you simply lack the experience with what goes on over here in to comment intelligently on it. Just because you've read something somewhere or watched a YouTube video simply does not make you an expert on the potentially tens of thousands of different variations of what is being taught. Heck I know of one apartment in particular that was teaching one thing a few years ago and is now teaching something completely different.

To be blunt, you are making pronouncements from a position of ignorance.

Ok. So you have what? A non integrated mess of whatever systems people think are cool.

And you wonder what my issue is with that?

LOL.

I just realized we both just described krav maga.

 

[Dirty Dog]

From my experience.

Do you truly not see the contradiction in believing that your experience should count as 'proof' but that of others doesn't?

 

[ballen0351]

2 weeks is setting up people to get hurt.

Which is the real issue here. More Officers then not choose for whatever reason not to train after thier initial police academy training.

 

[lklawson]

Ok. So you have what? A non integrated mess of whatever systems people think are cool.

a lot of it that works in some of it that doesn't. It's kind of like looking at a thousand different martial arts. Some of its going to be good and some of its not.

And you wonder what my issue is with that?

Heck no. I know what your problem is. But it isn't anything actually related to DT here in the US. It's actually about you. That is your problem. It's always all about you.

LOL.

I just realized we both just described krav maga.

Sometimes. Some DT here in the US is exactly krav maga. Some of it is worse. Some of it is a ton better. Some of it is derivation of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and judo and any number of other stuff that works. But modified to be specific to a cop's needs. The problem is that you don't know this. But you still feel like you can comment on it. Might as well comment on the general state of baseball in the US and lump everything in there from National league and American league through farm teams and even Little League. It's exactly the same thing. Now I got to tell you some of those t ballers can't hit a national league fastpitch for nothing. Care to comment on that too?

 

[ballen0351]

And no I don't think if a person did DT for the Same time as BJJ they would get the same results. Unless the standard of DT was the same as BJJ.

Standards cant be the same the goals are different..

And then we go back to the accountability issue.

Right and 1,000,000 cops using it millions of times a year is great accountability

Which if you are setting people loose to fight criminals with two weeks training. Probably isn't there.

Yet a VAST majority of the time it has worked so..........

 

[Robert Agar-Hutton]

Re the OP - my vote would be no to BJJ - the 'magic-fication' of any art - i.e. the idea that an art is suitable for everyone is just not true. Even among police officers there is a huge range of needs, physical and psychological attributes and etc...

 

[CB Jones]

Trained with cops. Trained cop systems. Restrained a bulk ton of bad guys. Handcuffed a bulk ton of bad guys. Worked with cops in the field. Thrown guys in the back of divvies. Trained with martial artists. Worked with martial artists, worked with BJJers.

Fought guys with knives, sticks, glasses and bats.

And using that to address what I see and hear off YouTube.

If you just wanted me to tell you I am a subject matter expert on clamping guys and that most cops can't fight. Then fine.

What you don’t understand is DT is not a fighting style.

It’s is the tactics certified by agencies and authorities that protect the officer both criminally and civilly.

You might be a subject matter on bouncing and fighting but you don’t know diddly about US law enforcement certification and standards requirements.

Still waiting for your reply to my questions on bjj certifications and how they meet required standards for LE.

 

[CB Jones]

Ok. So you have what? A non integrated mess of whatever systems people think are cool.

We have tactics that are certified that meet required standards to be protected legally that evolve as needed but continually certified by governing authorities

 

[CB Jones]

I can train 10 years at 10th planet bjj....but Eddie Bravo ain’t paying my legal expenses if I snap someone’s arm using his bjj tactics

 

[drop bear]

a lot of it that works in some of it that doesn't. It's kind of like looking at a thousand different martial arts. Some of its going to be good and some of its not.

Heck no. I know what your problem is. But it isn't anything actually related to DT here in the US. It's actually about you. That is your problem. It's always all about you.

Sometimes. Some DT here in the US is exactly krav maga. Some of it is worse. Some of it is a ton better. Some of it is derivation of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and judo and any number of other stuff that works. But modified to be specific to a cop's needs. The problem is that you don't know this. But you still feel like you can comment on it. Might as well comment on the general state of baseball in the US and lump everything in there from National league and American league through farm teams and even Little League. It's exactly the same thing. Now I got to tell you some of those t ballers can't hit a national league fastpitch for nothing. Care to comment on that too?

Yeah look this is the same conversation I had with king fu guys and ground work. For exactly the same reason. "You don't understand the principles of king fu. And the street is different".


I don't need to understand America to notice bad grappling.

I don't need to be a police officer to suggest people learn good grappling. In a job where you will probably be grappling someone.

And to tell if you are doing good grappling doesn't change country to country. Or even when you throw a uniform on.

There are specific variations. Which you haven't mentioned. But this in general principle that good grappling is different to police grappling is wrong.

 

[drop bear]

I can train 10 years at 10th planet bjj....but Eddie Bravo ain’t paying my legal expenses if I snap someone’s arm using his bjj tactics

And you DT instructor probably won't apologize to you in hospital.

 

[drop bear]

We have tactics that are certified that meet required standards to be protected legally that evolve as needed but continually certified by governing authorities

Is it cheaper to have the cop injured than the crook?

 

[drop bear]

What you don’t understand is DT is not a fighting style.

It’s is the tactics certified by agencies and authorities that protect the officer both criminally and civilly.

You might be a subject matter on bouncing and fighting but you don’t know diddly about US law enforcement certification and standards requirements.

Still waiting for your reply to my questions on bjj certifications and how they meet required standards for LE.

Who are the standards set up by?

Is it DT instructors?

 

[CB Jones]

And you DT instructor probably won't apologize to you in hospital.

You don’t know **** about our DT instructors. You are just speaking out your ****.

Our DT instructors spend a lot of time training and bring techniques from wrestling, bjj and other grappling styles to be certified and taught to help fix deficiencies. And take it very serious if one of ours gets hurt.

 

[CB Jones]

Who are the standards set up by?

Is it DT instructors?

Council under the authority of the state government who certifies all police and corrections officers... every state has one. You have to be certified within a year of hiring and recertifiy yearly.

 

[drop bear]

Council under the authority of the state government who certifies all police and corrections officers... every state has one. You have to be certified within a year of hiring and recertifiy yearly.

Let me see what I have from you guys so far.

We have a piecemeal system focused on covering department liability. Decided by council and state government.

Now the test of effectiveness of this system is that police can operate effectively. But these are the same police who may only do about 2 weeks training. And are still considered effective.

Have I missed anything?

 

[jks9199]

No accountability by anyone's standards.

Show me one video of a DT instructor actually handcuffing a resisting guy.

Well, it'd take a FOIA request and approval from the chief... and even then it's crap shoot whether you'd actually see anything because the reality is that cameras aren't often set up purely to capture the fight... and, though you're seeing more today -- lots of use of force comes up unexpectedly and suddenly, and cameras don't always get turned on in time. But it's happening more and more with the increasing spread of in-car video and body cameras.

There aren't a ton of agencies that are large enough and have a true, dedicated "all they do is teach at the academy" unit. Most LE instructors are working cops who are seconded or serve as an adjunct at the academy. That's how I do it... for the range and for DT.

Held accountable? Try teaching a group of working cops something. Anything. Doesn't even have to be DT techniques... Doesn't matter what it is. They'll do one of two things: call you on ********, or shut you down and tune you out -- blatantly.

 

[CB Jones]

What we have is a legend in his own mind who doesn’t know what he is talking about and is just making assumptions.