Ecological Training / Game-based Training

[Andrew Green]

A big trend these days in BJJ is "Ecological" training, basically using games to specifically train certain positions or techniques. It comes in multiple forms, but in general it focuses more on live work rather than drilling, the theory being that you learn better that way.
An example is if you are training Triangles, the game would be that you are only allowed to strangle with your legs. Or if you're training back takes, the game would be no submissions and taking the back means you win. That's pretty simple, but some schools have gone really far with it to the point of never drilling at all.
What are your thoughts on this game-based training? I personally enjoy it, but my school does still drill a little bit even after we started trying out the games and I think that blend is a good way to do things.

I think it is very misunderstood by people that haven't actually experienced it.

Simply "Only use triangles" is not really ecological approach, at least not beginner friendly as you have to have the context of what a triangle choke is in order to do a drill like that.

Eco or CLA "games" are usually much narrower in focus and designed to get a specific result. With coaching on how to get that result mixed in.

Designing a CLA based approach to learning jiu-jitsu probably takes a much deeper understanding of jiu-jitsu then teaching a move of the day curriculum.

I do think both are needed to really get the best results. Different people learn in different ways, and a "without resistance" walk through can help people get the mechanics and motions of something down, especially more complex motions.

But in general static drilling can help you learn mechanics, CLA drills help you get good at doing them against another person

 

[Kung Fu Wang115 145]

focuses more on live work rather than drilling,

This video is not working on any drill. It's also not life fightng. It's something in between. You may not know what you are going to do, depend what opportunity that your opponent may give you, or what opportunity that you may create youreslf.

I like the idea that the moment that you make an arm contact, the moment that you enter.

 

[isshinryuronin5 4]

This video is not working on any drill. It's also not life fightng. It's something in between. You may not know what you are going to do, depend what opportunity that your opponent may give you, or what opportunity that you may create youreslf.

I like the idea that the moment that you make an arm contact, the moment that you enter.

This is a nice exercise - contact, contact, contact..., then entering in with an arm wrap when the time feels right. But, in real life you can't always wait for the time to feel right - you have to move in at the first possible opportunity. So this exercise must be followed with a more intense and direct counter 2-step sparring type of partner work aiming at more realism.

 

[Kung Fu Wang115 145]

This is a nice exercise - contact, contact, contact..., then entering in with an arm wrap when the time feels right. But, in real life you can't always wait for the time to feel right - you have to move in at the first possible opportunity. So this exercise must be followed with a more intense and direct counter 2-step sparring type of partner work aiming at more realism.

I agree it's better to add in that your opponent also tries to enter and attacks you. This way, you can develop your defense/counter ability alone with offense ability.

How many levels deep should this go? May be the

- 1st year, only go 1 level deep.
- 2nd year, only go 2 level deep.
- 3rd year, only go 3 level deep.
- ...

This is how Chang Taiji push hand will look like. After 2.38, it looks more like the traditional Taiji push hand training.

 

[ArthurLockhart]

The Ecological Approach is a pedagogy that can't really be taught. In order for it to be an applied learning model, it requires a total acceptance and acknowledgement of a fundamental truth of intuitive learning. That truth echoes the Stockhausen Theory, which I've applied throughout my 30+ years of practicing, testing and sharing Taijiquan - You can't really teach anyone anything - you can only bring out what's already there

Without an unwavering adherence to that concept in every aspect of the training of oneself and others, the premise of learning to learn is at risk of being subjected to the whim(s) of the 'teacher'. There is no teacher in that learning environment. It follows a strict Socratic regimen of problem-solving and acceptance of the idea that one does not improve - they evolve.



I don't think that's the reason at all. He can't be blamed for harboring a bit of disdain for the resistance he probably got early on only to have those same people who argued down and/or dismissed his approach then appropriate and co-opt fragments of the EA without really understanding it. It requires a commitment to the idea and an immersive exposure to the process in order for it to be effectively understood.

I posted a basic outline of a training exercise here at MT that I've used to get young aggressive trainees used to the idea that they are their own teacher, and their ownership of what they learn is more important than anything I could ever teach them.

I think experience level makes a big difference here. Advanced practitioners can probably get much more from this approach than someone who's still trying to understand the fundamentals.