Dojang Discipline Problem and Safety Concerns

[ATC]

The biggest problem I see with letting the girl handle it herself is her age; she's 9, he's about the same. Add to that the structured environment of training, and I'm not quite willing to suggest that the problem be dealt with by themselves. They're both "black belts" -- but that's a skill acknowledgement in this case, not maturity. (Not trying to raise the whole child black belt thing; it's really a distraction here.) If there is a good, skilled female adult instructor, there might be a chance to kind of put the boy in his place, but I really suspect that those issues go a lot deeper than will be easily addressed in class. As in -- look to the home front; that's probably where he's learning it.

For the moment, blame goes to the instructional staff, ending at the head instructor. This is a mess that was allowed to develop, and will lead to the boy hurting a girl -- or getting hurt himself when someone stops putting up with it -- if it's not dealt with.

Life lessons start early. She is learning hers, soon he will need to learn his. The longer you wait to learn the lessons the harsher the lesson.

 

[Cyriacus]

My daughter (9 years old) has been at her dojang for over a year after transferring from another dojang that closed. She has been a consistent sparring team member and a state champion in her division in both poomse and sparring. She has really liked being at the new club, with the exception of an 8 year old boy that is consistently out of control.

Ok.

Whenever this boy gets paired up with a girl, he goes completely ballistic; throwing kicks full force with the intent of causing physical injury. Since his overall skill level is pretty low, he usually ends up kicking the girls in the legs and making them hurt, but not causing any real injury. Over the last 4 weeks he has started adding punching ONLY while fighting the girls.

Hes 8. I doubt Hes getting bloodlusty without provocation. Hes just going full force, not going for injury.
But I cant help but think that if His skill is lower, how is He able to hit Her? Has she not learnt to evade/dodge?

Punching is irrelevant. Hows it any different to kicking them?

Now, quesitons. 1: Is it against the rules to kick the legs? 2: Is he punching within the rules?
If the answer to 1 is yes, then consult the instructor.
If the answer to 2 is yes, thats irrelevant.
As for only when fighting girls, that may be incidental of it being easier, and their gender being coincidental. Some folks just spar hard when theyre with someone they can get away with it on.

Id suggest teaching her to counter kick though. A roundhouse kick to the legs normally leaves an opening for either a punch under the arm, or a roundhouse to the body. Is she actually fighting back? (Not to imply she isnt. Im just curious to know if hes feeding off of a lack of resistance)

Last night, he went over the top and punched my daughter above the hogu and in the throat, knocking her to the floor gasping for breath and leaving a nasty bruise on the bones just below the trachea. An inch higher and my daughter would have gone to the hospital. I saw the shot and he did not pull it at all. Today she is still having pain swallowing.

Probably an accident. I dont see why he should pull the shot though - Is it non contact sparring? In any case, its poor accuracy. I know that it isnt unheard of to punch at the area just around the collar of a hogu, and that the risk that comes with that is going too high. This is incidental of the circumstances, which is him going hard on someone he can get away with it on, not incidental of escalation.

I completely understand that this is a contact sport and have no problems with an occasional low kick, a hard head shot here or there, a body shot that went a little too hard for training, but this kid seems not to have any respect or regard for the safety of his training partners or he just hates girls. The rest of the kids in the class have a pretty healthy attitude for the training process and good control, except for this kid.

He doubt he hate girls. And if he does, the relevance is small. Id say he just likes going hard when he can get away with it, like a power trip.
As for control, what level of control is usually required, or isnt it so much required as expected by those who exercise it? These things can differ from place to place. But in any case, ill address this further in a second.

I spoke to the head instructor (who was not present at the time) to voice my concerns. I told him that I don't want to see that boy paired up with my daughter again. This morning, I'm thinking if I don't see some improvement I'll have to withdraw my daughter from this dojang and seek training somewhere else even though I know the training would be inferior. I do take my daughter's safety seriously.

You made the right move - Trying to stop them getting partnered up.
You dont need to withdraw, just press the point. Hard. Dont get me wrong, your concerns are valid. And his reasons, whatever they might be, dont change the fact that your daughter obviously doesnt like to spar hard.

Am I overreacting to the situation?

No.

Something to keep in mind: He may not actually be going as hard as she can, and if your daughter tries to hurt him, and does, he might come right back and turn it into a fight. If he likes going full force, responding with full force with intent to harm could cause him to go even harder to defend his perceived strength and whatnot. Be careful with fighting fire with fire, because if she could just win, just like that, shed be able to just casually hit him with full control enough to stop him being able to kick her at all. I wouldnt advise thinking that hurting him would help anything, i cant help but think it could worsen things.
Especially if she decides to forgo the rules. Because then HE will forgo the rules, and you have no idea what hell do when it turns into Self Defense for Him.
Its a last resort, keep it that way.

Ill also note ive already read the answers to some of my questions in the thread. Im not asking you, im 'asking' just to get you (whoever is reading) to ask themself and follow my train of thought, which may well be wrong. But im just taking a guess here, and guessing he goes hard on people he can get away with it on.

 

[chrispillertkd]

The biggest problem I see with letting the girl handle it herself is her age; she's 9, he's about the same. Add to that the structured environment of training, and I'm not quite willing to suggest that the problem be dealt with by themselves. They're both "black belts" -- but that's a skill acknowledgement in this case, not maturity. (Not trying to raise the whole child black belt thing; it's really a distraction here.) If there is a good, skilled female adult instructor, there might be a chance to kind of put the boy in his place, but I really suspect that those issues go a lot deeper than will be easily addressed in class. As in -- look to the home front; that's probably where he's learning it.

I pretty much totally agree with this sentiment. There's no easy answer for a situation like this, really, but I would err on the side of caution when it comes to children "settling matters" themselves (and I come from the "Don't start it, but finish it" school of thought when it comes to kids fighting). The immaturity of the two parties coupled with the training setting would make me, as a parent, quite leery of suggesting this as an option. I've seen people get "taught a lesson" on the floor, and I've been told by my instructor to make sure someone got put in their place because they were hurting other students when sparring. It's just not something I'd want my kid doing at that age. (I'm not saying it should never be done, but the fact that we're dealing with kids and this is a school where adult supervision is supposed to be present might send the wrong message.)

The problem starting at home may well be true. And herein lies another problem. The parents are the primary educators of the children. They have the right and the responsibility of teaching them how to be the adults they will be when they grow up. Any other teacher works at their good pleasure; they don't supplant parental authority. Any sort of interceding by the instructor must not intentionally cast the child's parent's in a bad light.

For the moment, blame goes to the instructional staff, ending at the head instructor. This is a mess that was allowed to develop, and will lead to the boy hurting a girl -- or getting hurt himself when someone stops putting up with it -- if it's not dealt with.

Indeed. The head instructor should lay down the law in no uncertain terms. If need be the offending child should not be allowed to spar again until he can convince the instructor that such behavior will not be repeated.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Kinghercules]

My daughter (9 years old) has been at her dojang for over a year after transferring from another dojang that closed. She has been a consistent sparring team member and a state champion in her division in both poomse and sparring. She has really liked being at the new club, with the exception of an 8 year old boy that is consistently out of control.

Whenever this boy gets paired up with a girl, he goes completely ballistic; throwing kicks full force with the intent of causing physical injury. Since his overall skill level is pretty low, he usually ends up kicking the girls in the legs and making them hurt, but not causing any real injury. Over the last 4 weeks he has started adding punching ONLY while fighting the girls.

Last night, he went over the top and punched my daughter above the hogu and in the throat, knocking her to the floor gasping for breath and leaving a nasty bruise on the bones just below the trachea. An inch higher and my daughter would have gone to the hospital. I saw the shot and he did not pull it at all. Today she is still having pain swallowing.

I completely understand that this is a contact sport and have no problems with an occasional low kick, a hard head shot here or there, a body shot that went a little too hard for training, but this kid seems not to have any respect or regard for the safety of his training partners or he just hates girls. The rest of the kids in the class have a pretty healthy attitude for the training process and good control, except for this kid.

I spoke to the head instructor (who was not present at the time) to voice my concerns. I told him that I don't want to see that boy paired up with my daughter again. This morning, I'm thinking if I don't see some improvement I'll have to withdraw my daughter from this dojang and seek training somewhere else even though I know the training would be inferior. I do take my daughter's safety seriously.

Am I overreacting to the situation?

Questions:
1. Why did you sign your child up in the 1st place?
2. Is she there to learn ballet or self defense?
3. Is this a McDojo?


Im a realist. I dont train or teach as a hobby. I know for many ppl now a days that this is only a hobby and a sport for kids. For me it was never that. My mom signed me up when I was 6 cause I use to get picked on and beat up in the hood and at school, so she took me to the dojo to learn how to fight. Today I teach kids how to fight plain and simple. They learn how to control their temper, ignore teasing....etc but the main thing is that they learn how to fight. If they get hit....block next time.


But as a parent I understand how you feel. That child shouldve had his belt taken away. He shouldve been reprimanded in front of the class. My daughter is 6yrs old and I had trained her. Ive seen older kids and higher belts pop her kinda hard and it pissed me off so I told her when kids wanna be aggressive with you hit them with full power. LOL!! It works. Because the kids see she cant be bullied. Yeah you should talk to the teacher and say they are being too aggressive but at the same time you want your child to learn how to block and move. You said you can take your girl to another school but it wont be as good. So I think you would have to believe that the instructor has to know what he or she is doing but it sounds like they have a problem with control. And I believe that comes from wearing the sparring gear. We never wore sparring gear and Ive never been hurt in class. But many schools today dont train without gear so kids dont know how to control their kicks and punches.

 

[Kinghercules]

I remember a story a good friend and very famous TKD instructor told me about his competition team and having problems between a couple of the students. He regretted not kicking both of them to the curb immediately, no matter who started it or how skilled or important the players were.

My daughter is already in the mindset that she will hurt this kid real bad if she gets in the ring with him again. If the head instructor does not address this issue, she will hurt this kid in ways that aren't legal in KKW TKD and then I am more than certain she'll get kicked to the curb after it is over. So I guess it doesn't matter what we/she does and it all falls on the head instructor to work this mess out.

For everyone's reference, my daughter does KKW/WTF TKD sparring. No SD focus whatsoever. Sparring is supposed to be controlled, technical and collaborative in training; but harder, and more brutal in competition. The head instructor said it before; your classmates are your family and you don't try to intentionally hurt your family. This kid just didn't get the message.

Sorry but I agree. LOL!!
Hell if the kid aint learning to control his kicks and punches then she needs to pop him. If she has the skills to do it.
If yall already sat down with the teacher with the boy then the next step is to handle it in the ring.
Whats the next step?
Pull her outta the class and find another school?

 

[Kinghercules]

For everyone's reference, my daughter does KKW/WTF TKD sparring. No SD focus whatsoever.

LOL!
Funny that you said that. Im a contract instructor with a couple of school that do KKW TKD and they hired me because their kids could fight their way outta paper bag to save their life. And I dont understand how in the hell these schools come about.

 

[outsider0506]

I'm not sure why there's always the presumption that all KKW schools suck all students in those schools suck... The focus is just on something other than SD. I'm also not sure why every thread on this board always goes back to the Sport vs SD discussion...

If there were no more KKW/WTF there wouldn't be TKD in the Olympics. TKD in the Olympics is free publicity for both sport focused and SD focused TKD schools. USAT and KKW/WTF schools in the United States of America produced 2 bronze medalists this Olympics, so ALL WTF/KKW schools are useless?

 

[chrispillertkd]

Don't feed the trolls.

Pax,

Chris

 

[outsider0506]

Thanks. Point taken!

 

[Tez3]

I'm not sure why there's always the presumption that all KKW schools suck all students in those schools suck... The focus is just on something other than SD. I'm also not sure why every thread on this board always goes back to the Sport vs SD discussion...

If there were no more KKW/WTF there wouldn't be TKD in the Olympics. TKD in the Olympics is free publicity for both sport focused and SD focused TKD schools. USAT and KKW/WTF schools in the United States of America produced 2 bronze medalists this Olympics, so ALL WTF/KKW schools are useless?

I think it's because of things like this, that someone who does martial arts is getting hurt when they shouldn't be. I don't think it should be sport OR SD, a good balance of both would be good thougheven fot hose who do a martial art purely for sport.

 

[jks9199]

Y'know, I think the sport/self defense distinction is moot here. First, the OP said that's not what it's about. Second, we're talking 8 and 9 year olds. Third, we're talking about a sparring exercise. Fourth, we're talking 8 and 9 year old kids.

Sparring is a controlled practice; the point isn't to cripple your partner, but to practice in an unrehearsed situation. When you add the sports focus, it becomes an exercise to prepare the participants for competition. Boxers don't spar full contact with each other regularly. Football teams don't spend the week running full contact plays against each other to prep for the game. And they practice within the rules for their sport... It seems, from the OP, that this boy's got a problem. It may be bullying. It may be misogyny. It may be simply that he's gotten away with it... But if he does the same in a tournament, he'll be disqualified, right? And he's going to hurt another student.

The instructional staff needs to rein him in or get rid of him. He's 8. My vote goes for rein him in, unless it's going to be a fruitless enterprise. And maybe review their practices and procedures to avoid the problem in the future...

 

[granfire]

I remember a story a good friend and very famous TKD instructor told me about his competition team and having problems between a couple of the students. He regretted not kicking both of them to the curb immediately, no matter who started it or how skilled or important the players were.

My daughter is already in the mindset that she will hurt this kid real bad if she gets in the ring with him again. If the head instructor does not address this issue, she will hurt this kid in ways that aren't legal in KKW TKD and then I am more than certain she'll get kicked to the curb after it is over. So I guess it doesn't matter what we/she does and it all falls on the head instructor to work this mess out.

For everyone's reference, my daughter does KKW/WTF TKD sparring. No SD focus whatsoever. Sparring is supposed to be controlled, technical and collaborative in training; but harder, and more brutal in competition. The head instructor said it before; your classmates are your family and you don't try to intentionally hurt your family. This kid just didn't get the message.

Well, not TKD but bully related.

My kid is big for his age, always was.
And while he did earn his BB the hard way (flunked a couple of times) he is not a fighter.

There have been incidences in school that were borderline. The kid got bullied. He ALWAYS had standing permission to take care of business.
That means we do not start trouble, but we mean to see it through.
He was/is always worried about the consequences, of being suspended or expelled to which I told him (and would tell again should the need arise)
'This would be a suspension we would celebrate!'

You have done the right thing as parent, you pitched the ball into the instructor's court.
If I were in your shoes, I'd tell my kid to throw the rules out and make sure the point comes across: You hurt me I hurt you back.
Sparring has rules, one breaks the rules there have to be consequences.
While there might not be SD training in the dojang, that does not mean the little girl has to abandon self preservation (BTW, a punch to the throat can do a lot more than just send your girl to the hospital! It can be potentially lethal! And from my mom who is a retired healthcare professional, it does not take a whole lot either!)

There are individuals that have a problem with the opposite gender. But frankly, I am a bit concerned that the kid is only 9...the guys who have to kick the women in the boobs I have encountered are usually in puberty...or older...concerning, to be sure!

 

[granfire]

Y'know, I think the sport/self defense distinction is moot here. First, the OP said that's not what it's about. Second, we're talking 8 and 9 year olds. Third, we're talking about a sparring exercise. Fourth, we're talking 8 and 9 year old kids.

Sparring is a controlled practice; the point isn't to cripple your partner, but to practice in an unrehearsed situation. When you add the sports focus, it becomes an exercise to prepare the participants for competition. Boxers don't spar full contact with each other regularly. Football teams don't spend the week running full contact plays against each other to prep for the game. And they practice within the rules for their sport... It seems, from the OP, that this boy's got a problem. It may be bullying. It may be misogyny. It may be simply that he's gotten away with it... But if he does the same in a tournament, he'll be disqualified, right? And he's going to hurt another student.

The instructional staff needs to rein him in or get rid of him. He's 8. My vote goes for rein him in, unless it's going to be a fruitless enterprise. And maybe review their practices and procedures to avoid the problem in the future...

yes, little kids, that is worrysome to me...

 

[Markku P]

Am I overreacting to the situation?

No, You are not overreacting. You must talk with Chief instructor and the owner. If something like this happens in my school. I would talk with a kid and his parents, If he would continue act same way then he wouldn't be allowed to do any sparring. If nothing else helps then I just would refund the money and ask them to move another school. ( but nothing like this never happened to me )

 

[Master Dan]

Wanted to get back on this topic one more time. While sparring needs to be completely controlled in a safe and proper manner as the students approach older physical and mental development they need to be able to cope with both pain and intimidation. I can't allow a student here to recieve a black belt if they cannot infact deal with both physical and mental conflict. This means learning to handle it on thier own verbally or physically if necessary. In 30 years of teaching full contact we have had far less injuries than any of the other sports but bruizes some even bleeding happens first the person in charge needs to have all medical first aid and bodly fluid training and second young students need to learn how to overcome injuries that are recoverable and continue on with out drama and gain experience, wisdom and survivability from that. Getting a black belt here means you have a target on your back and people will try you. An instructor can help the student to cope with an injury metally and physically or make it worse.

I have a grandfather and grand son who he is raising with out any help the grand father was severely abused as a child and has many issues related to stress and coping. Both of them have come along way and they are testing for 1 Dan next month hence we are doing alot of real 4 on one attacks and it stops when they are put to ground. We are trying to get them to 30 seconds in the process people get some minor damge. The grandson is getting pulled muscles jambed toes even bleeding tonails at times. The Grand father gets really worked up and over projects his emotions into the 14 year old which makes the injury worse. He did this again last week and I had to pull him out and explain that he was impeeding his growth and recovery by projecting his mental issues into him. His injuries are not life threatening and infact he needs to learn how to recover and continue to defend himself your over reacting is feeding his fear and pain. The grandson heard me talk and he went from crying to getting over it and begging to go in three more times with better progress and when asked and examined he had little or no pain at that time. Constructive pain can be a good teacher I see absolutely no point in giving black belts to people who cannot truly defend themselves mentally or physically. The grandfather like many in his culture loose the battle when it comes to basic life and coping skills. Now with much patiences on my part he has been able to deal with abusive managers at his job and been promoted to replacing them with a 40% raise in income and they are going to move from a small apartment with no kitchen for the last 3 years to a new beautifull 3 bedroom home being finished this month and both thier futures are very bright. I have had the grand son since he was 6 and he is now 14 just moved out of grade school to the big house grades 7-12 he is holding his own with guys alot bigger than him. His father Korean and mother Eskimo both abandoned him long ago and it weighs heavily on him at times his wanting to live with his mother in an extremely remote village far away with a boy friend who would abuse him and virtually no hope of better education and support like here. But in the last year he has matured alot and the mother after visiting agrees he is better off.

Like any only child he has been our baby and we all tend to want to protect them from any harm but its truly awesome to see him and other children as well as adults benefit from tradition training that feeds the whole person not just McDoJo belts and medals that don't help a person feed themselves and thier family and have a good life

 

[granfire]

Wanted to get back on this topic one more time. While sparring needs to be completely controlled in a safe and proper manner as the students approach older physical and mental development they need to be able to cope with both pain and intimidation. I can't allow a student here to recieve a black belt if they cannot infact deal with both physical and mental conflict. This means learning to handle it on thier own verbally or physically if necessary. In 30 years of teaching full contact we have had far less injuries than any of the other sports but bruizes some even bleeding happens first the person in charge needs to have all medical first aid and bodly fluid training and second young students need to learn how to overcome injuries that are recoverable and continue on with out drama and gain experience, wisdom and survivability from that. Getting a black belt here means you have a target on your back and people will try you. An instructor can help the student to cope with an injury metally and physically or make it worse.

I have a grandfather and grand son who he is raising with out any help the grand father was severely abused as a child and has many issues related to stress and coping. Both of them have come along way and they are testing for 1 Dan next month hence we are doing alot of real 4 on one attacks and it stops when they are put to ground. We are trying to get them to 30 seconds in the process people get some minor damge. The grandson is getting pulled muscles jambed toes even bleeding tonails at times. The Grand father gets really worked up and over projects his emotions into the 14 year old which makes the injury worse. He did this again last week and I had to pull him out and explain that he was impeeding his growth and recovery by projecting his mental issues into him. His injuries are not life threatening and infact he needs to learn how to recover and continue to defend himself your over reacting is feeding his fear and pain. The grandson heard me talk and he went from crying to getting over it and begging to go in three more times with better progress and when asked and examined he had little or no pain at that time. Constructive pain can be a good teacher I see absolutely no point in giving black belts to people who cannot truly defend themselves mentally or physically. The grandfather like many in his culture loose the battle when it comes to basic life and coping skills. Now with much patiences on my part he has been able to deal with abusive managers at his job and been promoted to replacing them with a 40% raise in income and they are going to move from a small apartment with no kitchen for the last 3 years to a new beautifull 3 bedroom home being finished this month and both thier futures are very bright. I have had the grand son since he was 6 and he is now 14 just moved out of grade school to the big house grades 7-12 he is holding his own with guys alot bigger than him. His father Korean and mother Eskimo both abandoned him long ago and it weighs heavily on him at times his wanting to live with his mother in an extremely remote village far away with a boy friend who would abuse him and virtually no hope of better education and support like here. But in the last year he has matured alot and the mother after visiting agrees he is better off.

Like any only child he has been our baby and we all tend to want to protect them from any harm but its truly awesome to see him and other children as well as adults benefit from tradition training that feeds the whole person not just McDoJo belts and medals that don't help a person feed themselves and thier family and have a good life

well, yes and no:
You have to take your lumps and bruises, that comes with the territory.
In your case nobody is deliberately out to beat your two students up or inflict harm.

In the question at hand is a young child with issues breaking the rules that make the game of sparing somewhat controlled (I am sure that in your Dojang deliberate punches to the throat are not welcome either...I know it is a legal target, but rather dangerous and unusual...)
if we went all out all the time with the intend to hurt our training partners, we'd all be beat up and on disability.
Yes, this is a martial art, but it is also a forum where you have to have respect for your opponent.
And I think in this case the young gentleman has not realized that the counterparts he likes to beat up on could stomp a mud hole in his behind and walk it dry.
And the realization might not be pretty.
Best case scenario he realizes that somebody might just be badder than he is.
Worst case scenario? He could plow a gasket.

I sure am eager to hear the update on the story.

 

[Master Dan]

well, yes and no:
You have to take your lumps and bruises, that comes with the territory.
In your case nobody is deliberately out to beat your two students up or inflict harm.

In the question at hand is a young child with issues breaking the rules that make the game of sparing somewhat controlled (I am sure that in your Dojang deliberate punches to the throat are not welcome either...I know it is a legal target, but rather dangerous and unusual...)
if we went all out all the time with the intend to hurt our training partners, we'd all be beat up and on disability.
Yes, this is a martial art, but it is also a forum where you have to have respect for your opponent.
And I think in this case the young gentleman has not realized that the counterparts he likes to beat up on could stomp a mud hole in his behind and walk it dry.
And the realization might not be pretty.
Best case scenario he realizes that somebody might just be badder than he is.
Worst case scenario? He could plow a gasket.

I sure am eager to hear the update on the story.

there are no legal contact to the throat not sure where you came up with that infact while I prefer to teach controlled contact to the head in strick competition rules below certain rank and age they cannot even fain any atack to the head area with out warning or disqualification. And I am not talking about 8-9 year olds but 14 and up self defense its real and hard and they have to survive not being taken down for 30 seconds with some poeple outweighing them considerable. But even in sparring some minor injuries happen and I am only pointing out extreme is bad either way pushing people beyond what is necessary or being over protective retards development as well. I think the other kid holding back not wanting to hurt the boy is good character but what needs to happen is not allow unqualified people to supervise sparring weather the girl stays leaves or fights back will not resolve the issue of improper supervision of minors in a contact sport

 

[jks9199]

In all the talk about toughening up, we're losing sight of a big detail. These kids are under 10 years old. And this is a problem that's grown over several months, with the boy being allowed to get away with it. I can easily see and understand a level of "well, it's a contact sport" -- but there was a supervision failure that allowed him to develop a habit or routine of fighting hard against girls, but not boys. I'm not saying he's a bully. I'm not saying the school is careless. I am saying that they have an obligation to address the problem, and that it goes beyond "toughening the kids up." The girl was injured, not simply hurt. Her throat was still sore a day or more later. That could have been a major injury.

 

[Balrog]

Trust me, my daughter beats him on points EVERY time, but not without taking a nasty bruising to the thighs every time. Mind you, this kid is supposed to be black belt level. Earlier in the year I had told my daughter to kick him harder (but still in legal scoring zones) to make him stop and respect the training relationship. I think this only made the dynamic worse.

As others have said, this needs to be discussed with the instructor.

Having said that.....I would not stop your daughter from sparring him. However, I would tell her - and tell the instructor this as well - the first time he whacks her in the leg, she should warn him to watch his control and strike to legal target areas. If he does it again, she should knock him on his butt, hard, and continue from that point to knock him down every time he gets up until the instructor tells them to stop.

Some people just don't get the message. It's like whacking a mule between the ears with a 2x4 - sometimes, you just gotta get their attention.

 

[Gorilla]

I have always allowed my kids to handle these things themselves. Being able to handle confrontation is lesson best learned early!

They have been able to talk about it in most cases but retaliation has been a solution on more than one occasion!