disciplining kids with push ups

[goingd]

More often than not kids need to be punished with, or at least be made known of the looming threat of push ups. Now, how do you get a kid to do a proper push up in order for it to be effective discipline?

 

[Bruno@MT]

More often than not kids need to be punished with, or at least be made known of the looming threat of push ups.

Why? I mean what is the background of the question?
Do kids need to be punished often?
Or do you need to use push-ups as a punishment?

 

[StudentCarl]

Answering your question: You teach them. It's a physical movement, so you teach the form and execution, understanding that execution will improve with age and practice. If you see poor form, include it in class warmup and coach proper technique.

Looming behind your question is the issue of class management and understanding of age-based differences in attention. With kids the issue should only be punishment if the misbehavior is willful (deliberate/purposeful). Lack of focus and childish behaviors require different management and positive teaching rather than punishment.

If pushups are the backup plan in your classroom management, what gets kids' attention is the act of dropping them more than the pushups.
With older students, my masters standard statement is that "if master has to say something a second time, it comes with pushups". With younger students, reteaching is the rule and a class assistant helps next to the student. If the whole class is unfocused (sometimes happens with a big bunch of 5-6 year olds), we change activities to something more active that requires less attention to detail. "Patience, persistence and praise" are our watchwords. Focus and self-discipline improve with practice.

Carl

 

[Satt]

Now, how do you get a kid to do a proper push up in order for it to be effective discipline?

More pushups!!! MUAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!! :whip:




...sorry I couldn't help myself.

 

[TigerLove]

I very often run classes for kids, from white to green belt. Well, they are usually kids, there are also some older folks whi just got started.

I sometimes force them to do push ups, but not tu punish them, just to make them force that extra energy on something useful then to talking and lurking around.

I never look it as punishment, neither should they.

 

[SahBumNimRush]

I have say, having been one of those students as a child and being an instructor, that I can see things from both sides at this point in my life.. . When I started MA, I was only 5 yo, and I couldn't stop talking or watching other people.. . I was the push up king of my dojang for the first couple of years I was in class! I hated the push ups, but I hated being singled out every night even more.. .

Eventually I could the message: Shut up and pay attention!

That being said, it is a slippery slope punishing students/ athletes with physical exercise. It CAN set up a long term reinforcement that the specific activity (push ups in this case) are punishment and not exercise. Some students/athletes can grow up NEVER wanting to push ups again, because it was a form of PUNISHMENT earlier.. .

However, IMHO, when used sparingly, push ups are effective in humbling a young student into properly conducting themselves in class. The key here is sparingly.

As for getting them to properly perform a push up, that's tough for a youngster.. . I make sure they are in a proper position before they start their first one.

 

[terryl965]

I see no problems in making childern do push ups or any other exorcise if they are mis behaving.

 

[granfire]

if they don't do the push-ups right you can't make them.
Depending on how badly they butcher them, you might have to switch to jumping jacks.

Had a kid once, he flopped around like a sick seal instead of doing push-ups - and he was in for a lot, too...(serious issues supported by mom, what can you do...)

 

[ynnad]

Punishment for misbehaving in class should be addressed with class management and personal engagement. If it is defiance then you need to get the parent involved and ask whether martial arts classes are right for this child at this time.

As a side note: Some of the claims MA schools make about making children better behaved, is over-blown and borderline dishonest.

I think singling a child out and making them do push-ups for misbehavior is counter-productive. I don't believe it works. Most of the time it is going to make the child resent you and the class and the activity.

Showing them how to act is a much better approach in a martial arts school. This doesn't mean that in school or home these types of behavioral consequences aren't necessary, but that is a different context. Pulling the child aside and asking them if any of the other kids are acting this way, if they are striving to be a Black Belt, if they think their behavior represents a Black Belt attitude, and formational kinds of questions such as these are much better at getting at what we are trying to accomplish more than mere positional authority demanding obedience.

Push-ups for misbehavior is too simplistic and doesn't require the harder more relational approaches that actual call people to a higher standard and change their lives. With my kids, up to five years or so, reward/consequence is about all the tools you have. But after this, you begin to deepen relational bonds. I would rather my kids obey me because they trust me and they want to be like me, rather than because if they don't they are going to get in trouble. Disclaimer: This doesn't mean that punishment is off the table, but it is less preferable.

Now if the push-ups are done in a light hearted way, that is different. We have done an activity where you draw a pattern out of a hat and do it. If you mess up, you have to do push-ups while the next person does a form. This is fun and incorporates a workout into forms. It really isn't punishment, however.

Just my two-cents.

Danny

 

[StudentCarl]

While the pushup is a great upper body exercise, I wonder if more suitable exercises for TKD would be the jumping jack and/or the squat or squat jump. These exercises condition the legs.

BTW, if you haven't done jumping jacks to failure, it's an experience. There's no way to rest, and the conditioning is sparring-related.

Jumping jacks take longer, if you're looking for an immediate burn, than squat jumps.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It worked for a friend of mine with his own kids. He used all sorts of exercise to punish his kids when it was needed. They all turned out great and they are all in pretty good shape.

But then since he was the DI and the army DI school I am not sure if they ever really had a choice

 

[granfire]

Punishment for misbehaving in class should be addressed with class management and personal engagement. If it is defiance then you need to get the parent involved and ask whether martial arts classes are right for this child at this time.

As a side note: Some of the claims MA schools make about making children better behaved, is over-blown and borderline dishonest.

I think singling a child out and making them do push-ups for misbehavior is counter-productive. I don't believe it works. Most of the time it is going to make the child resent you and the class and the activity.

Showing them how to act is a much better approach in a martial arts school. This doesn't mean that in school or home these types of behavioral consequences aren't necessary, but that is a different context. Pulling the child aside and asking them if any of the other kids are acting this way, if they are striving to be a Black Belt, if they think their behavior represents a Black Belt attitude, and formational kinds of questions such as these are much better at getting at what we are trying to accomplish more than mere positional authority demanding obedience.

Push-ups for misbehavior is too simplistic and doesn't require the harder more relational approaches that actual call people to a higher standard and change their lives. With my kids, up to five years or so, reward/consequence is about all the tools you have. But after this, you begin to deepen relational bonds. I would rather my kids obey me because they trust me and they want to be like me, rather than because if they don't they are going to get in trouble. Disclaimer: This doesn't mean that punishment is off the table, but it is less preferable.

Now if the push-ups are done in a light hearted way, that is different. We have done an activity where you draw a pattern out of a hat and do it. If you mess up, you have to do push-ups while the next person does a form. This is fun and incorporates a workout into forms. It really isn't punishment, however.

Just my two-cents.

Danny

At least in our school push ups are part of the exercise (as a re squats)

However, depending on the weather and moon phases (I kid you not) you can have a bunch of kids who's minds are in lala land.
Usually the deal is you do X because of Y and if I have to keep reminding you it's push ups. It does not single a kid out, it's the class rules. and all of them have done it, at one point or another. On the other hand, if one kid messes up and the whole class is dropped for additional exercise...that is pointing fingers.
But we have also had the waiting crowd in the lobby do some 'warmups' or cool downs this way... you get so loud that the instructor looks out, you are in deep doo doo

Personally I don't like squats and loathe jumping jacks, but I am middle aged and my knees aren't what they used to be. (I also see a posibility to hurt yourself with a sloppy squat more than with sloppy pushups)

 

[Stac3y]

I see no problems in making childern do push ups or any other exorcise if they are mis behaving.

Particularly if they are possessed by demons. :angel:

 

[goingd]

I had a feeling this would produce more discussion. That's fine. Now, for myself, I do not single kids out and make them do push ups right away. When it comes to lack of focus I have ways to get their attention without punishing them; but for blatant misbehavior I have a system: first time you get a warning, second time I tell you that you owe me X amount of push ups AFTER class (doing it right then and there just seems even more disruptive to me). If I have to tell you a third time you sit down for the rest of class.

I would love to be able to tell some parents that I'm not sure if Taekwondo is right for their child at that time (hence: teach them some discipline at home first), but it is not my program. I teach for the city for my master. It is his program, and they are his students before they are mine.

 

[d1jinx]

You know, its funny cause when a kid is acting up or goofing off and I'm in the middle of something... I make them do "push-up Joon bi" which is the up position of push ups. Then I proceed with teaching.

Too often if I said "# pushups" they dropped and did them super fast, not right, and jumped back up. It was too disruptive to class to count them out or pay attention if they did them.

So now they stay in that boring "pushup joon bi" Till I'm done with what ever I was doing, then I count them out. By then their little arms are burning like crazy and they are not having fun. The more frequent the out burst, the longer they wait in "push- up joon bi"!!!!

I love it because they hate it worse than doing the push ups.:rofl:


hahahahahahahaha

Oh and I dont have as many "repeat offenders"

 

[granfire]

I would love to be able to tell some parents that I'm not sure if Taekwondo is right for their child at that time (hence: teach them some discipline at home first), but it is not my program. I teach for the city for my master. It is his program, and they are his students before they are mine.

A lot of parents bring their spawn to the school so the mean ole instructor can jerk a knot in them...and all is undone before the door falls shut behind them....

(think Simpsons: Ned Flanders parents: "We have tried nothing and are all out of ideas!")

 

[goingd]

when a kid is acting up or goofing off and I'm in the middle of something... I make them do "push-up Joon bi" which is the up position of push ups. Then I proceed with teaching.

That is a really good idea... Thanks!

 

[ATC]

You know, its funny cause when a kid is acting up or goofing off and I'm in the middle of something... I make them do "push-up Joon bi" which is the up position of push ups. Then I proceed with teaching.

Too often if I said "# pushups" they dropped and did them super fast, not right, and jumped back up. It was too disruptive to class to count them out or pay attention if they did them.

So now they stay in that boring "pushup joon bi" Till I'm done with what ever I was doing, then I count them out. By then their little arms are burning like crazy and they are not having fun. The more frequent the out burst, the longer they wait in "push- up joon bi"!!!!

I love it because they hate it worse than doing the push ups.:rofl:


hahahahahahahaha

Oh and I dont have as many "repeat offenders"

We do this also. It is better than having a 5 year old do what I call ground humping. Even older kids that can do pushups after so many just go on their knees and do nothing. Have them hold themselves up at the top part of a pushup for even 2 minutes is enough to get the point across and like d1jinx said, they hate it.

 

[Traditionalist]

I have never pointed a kid out and made him do push-ups or any other exercise in front of the class, instead I make the whole class do it. If one students can't contain himself then we all suffer, including myself (I do the punishment too to show the kids I can). Sooner or later the one student causing all of problem gets the idea that his classmates are upset with him. That usually fixes it. I never start with punishment though its always after warnings and everyone knows the rules before we start class. I explain to the kids that yes we are doing exercise but in order to be a great martial artist you have to be in shape mentally and physically so its not punishment really it us getting better. I have a lot of kids come back to me and tell me that they are the fittest kid in school because of what we do in class. They see the results and then we end up having to do more exercise because they are enjoying it way to much.

 

[Gorilla]

Big Fan of disciplining kids when they are wrong. Not a big fan of using exercise as a way to discipline. I want them to like exercise not hate it.