Deflecting Hammer

[Rob_Broad]

(front - right front thrust kick)

1)Standing naturally, step back with your left foot toward 7:30 into a right neutral bow stance (to move out of your opponent's line of attack), as you simultaneously execute a right outside downward diagonal block against the outsode of your opponent's right kicking leg. Be sure to have your left check at your solar plexus during your block. (Your opponent's body should turn slightly to his left when your block is properly executed. Your block should additionally, turn your opponent's width, and cause injury to his leg.)

2)Without hesitation, and while still in your right neutral bow, shuffle forward as your left hand checks inward toward and between your opponent's right shoulder and bicep. Your right hand continues to circle, and will re-orbit into an inward elbow strike. (Make sure your left hand checks your opponent's forward momentum as well as the width of his upper body.)

3)Just as you conclude your shuffle execute a right inward horizontal elbow strike to your opponent's face. This is done simultaneously with a left sliding check down and onto your opponent's right elbow. (The effects of both actions should cause your opponent's head to snap back and possibly have your opponent drop to the ground.)

 

[Kempojujutsu]

In Okinawa Kempo we do not teach to down block front kicks. We use leg blocks, stop hits, parries. If they would get the kick up maybe drive an elbow into the shin or top of the foot. But I would consider this a stop hit.
Bob :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Having done both down-blocks and leg blocks I have to ask, which is more effective? I've jammed a few fingers from off blocks.

Now, the question here is, if you replace the down-block with say a knee block, how would that effect this technique? I can see the knee doing more damage, but would it put you in a poorer position for the follow ups?

:asian:

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Usually after the knee block, I step down and end up trapping one of there feet to off balance them or able to do osoto gari throw, or follow up with just a straight blast to get them to turn away.
Bob :asian:

 

[Roland]

...you do not need to block!

 

[Kirk]

Now again, not an expert here, so hopefully someone with a LOT
more knowledge than I will chime in ... but I think that
if you did a knee block here, then you'd have to check inward
toward and between your opponent's right shoulder and bicep
as the knee comes down. The problem there is ... (I think )
that you haven't at that time canceled a zone. With the down
block, the attacker's stance is increased quite a bit as the block
goes out past your body, and you've effectively canceled his
height zone.

maybe?!?

 

[Kempojujutsu]

But if you do a downward block, don't you leave that side of your face/body exposed to some kind of strike. Also some people kick very hard won't this damage your arms/ hands if you try this.
Bob :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

ok...thinking about this a little more.... I can see the knee shot not allowing you to position correctly...

The down block (which I believe arcs down) will push your opponent to -your- right, where as the knee will stop their forward motion. It seems like a minor difference, but its not.

Hmm.......maybe a left roundhouse kick...then again, that would seem to destabilize your base....

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Most of the time when I have done this. Guy throwing kick usually ends up laying on the ground grabbing his shin. What more could you ask for. I actaully had a student do this in a TKD class. The TKD student didn't apprecate the knee into the shin either.
Bob :asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

In Okinawa Kempo we do not teach to down block front kicks. We use leg blocks, stop hits, parries. If they would get the kick up maybe drive an elbow into the shin or top of the foot. But I would consider this a stop hit.
Bob :asian:

We don't either- we redirect and strike as we move off line. We don't strike the shins with our hands but the "muscle" portion on the outside of the leg for this particular technique.

Having done both down-blocks and leg blocks I have to ask, which is more effective? I've jammed a few fingers from off blocks.

You took on a bigger force or your fist was not tight.

Now, the question here is, if you replace the down-block with say a knee block, how would that effect this technique? I can see the knee doing more damage, but would it put you in a poorer position for the follow ups?

The attack is not a round kick. To lift your leg and try to absorb a front thrusting ball kick would leave you on the ground and if your shins were not conditioned unable to get back up. (don't forget steel toed boots) The deflection from redirection and strike causes the opponent to rotate counterclock wise thus opening the angle of entry for the ensuing elbow. Thus the name deflecting hammer- but not trying to match forces with the kick- more like hitting and damaging as it goes by and altering his line of attack and opening up your own.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

So it is more like a parry but you are using a hammerfist to deflect the incoming kick? Not standing in front of the kick and apply downward block to the shin. Is this correct?
Bob :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Originally posted by Rainman

You took on a bigger force or your fist was not tight.

Was an open palm vs side kick if I remember right...

Originally posted by Rainman
The attack is not a round kick. To lift your leg and try to absorb a front thrusting ball kick would leave you on the ground and if your shins were not conditioned unable to get back up. (don't forget steel toed boots) The deflection from redirection and strike causes the opponent to rotate counterclock wise thus opening the angle of entry for the ensuing elbow. Thus the name deflecting hammer- but not trying to match forces with the kick- more like hitting and damaging as it goes by and altering his line of attack and opening up your own. [/B]

I see it now. Thank you. :asian:

Is there a source for a video clip of this technique?:asian:

 

[Rainman]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

So it is more like a parry but you are using a hammerfist to deflect the incoming kick? Not standing in front of the kick and apply downward block to the shin. Is this correct?
Bob :asian:

For our group it is- but we are also moving off the line of the thrust kick.

Is there a source for a video clip of this technique?

Well not that would show you what you need to know. Yep gotta manged finger myself... the result of improper hand angle or leading with fingers on an incorrect angle for an open hand redirect. The result was losing range of motion for that finger so I teach people to keep the fingers back especially for kicks.

glad I could help guys

:asian:

 

[Chiduce]

Originally posted by Roland

...you do not need to block!

Yourself and Kempojujutsu have very good points. In Dragon Kenpo the upward is not taught. In my Clandestine Black Dragon Kenpo Karatejutsu both upward and downward blocking is not taught. We either use ashi sabaki - tai sabaki combinations or knee blocking.
Sincerely, In Humility;
Chiduce!

 

[kenmpoka]

You are not actually meeting or blocking the kick in its path. In this instance you are redirecting the kick and moving at an angle (45) back and forth striking with the left palm to the ribs or biceps. If your timing is good, you hit the opponent right before his leg hits the ground, disturbing his width and depth setting up for a take down in so many different ways.

:asian:

 

[fanged_seamus]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

So it is more like a parry but you are using a hammerfist to deflect the incoming kick? Not standing in front of the kick and apply downward block to the shin. Is this correct?
Bob :asian:

Just adding to what kenmpoka said, the key in the technique is the direction of the downward strike/block. As I was taught:

The straight front kick is coming in from 12:00. I would step towards 7:30 and execute the downward strike to the leg. I am now oriented on the 1:30 to 7:30 line, and my strike hits the attacker's legs on the 4:30 to 10:30 line. That cancels both the width and depth of the attacker by drawing the leg past you and rotating the attacker counterclockwise. (If you strike along the 3:00 to 9:00 line, you only upset the width, and the attacker can EASILY respond with a spinning back kick, as my instructor demonstrated rather cruelly on me once ).

If the attacker wants to hit with a punch, about the only one that can be easily launched would be a right backfist. But the attacker's body is rotating counterclockwise, so launching it would require the balance of an Olympic athlete.

Hope that clarifies things. I REALLY like this technique; it's fast, harsh, and really helped me understand the heighth-width-depth issues.

Tad

 

[Kempojujutsu]

So the attacker is aiming this kick to the groin, solar plex area. What do you do if they try to kick you in the knee, thigh or shin?
I am not try to convert or say my way is better. But in Okinawa Kempo the attacker can kick from ankle level to head level and the knee block or jam will work. He can also attack with either leg and the block will still work without changing stances. I have seen Muay Thai guys that would rip your arm off if you tried that on them.
Bob :asian:

 

[Blindside]

It works fine against the thigh kick, but it won't work against the knee or shin kick.

Even a MT teep (thrusting front kick) won't rip you arm off. And no, I wouldn't stick my arm in front of a MT round kick if I could stop or avoid it in any other manner.

I think you are reading too much into a single kick defense. It is sort of like saying the knee block doesn't work against a MT roundhouse to the head. Well of course it doesn't work, it wasn't designed to work against it.

Lamont

 

[Rob_Broad]

Originally posted by Kempojujutsu

So the attacker is aiming this kick to the groin, solar plex area. What do you do if they try to kick you in the knee, thigh or shin?
I am not try to convert or say my way is better. But in Okinawa Kempo the attacker can kick from ankle level to head level and the knee block or jam will work. He can also attack with either leg and the block will still work without changing stances. I have seen Muay Thai guys that would rip your arm off if you tried that on them.
Bob :asian:

The great thing about this technique is by moving off line from the attack you are negating his attack. The next question will proabably be what if they throw a different kick, we have different techniques for such.

American Kenpo is a 3 stage system(for most practioners, for practioners like Doc it goes beyond that), the written technique is for the ideal phase. Kempojujutsu is already asking for the second phase the "what ifs". The ideal phase teaches us some good principles of self defense and motion, the what if phase allows us to explore and experiment with those principles. The last phase, is the ultimate goal, and that is spontaneous reaction, there you would flow from applicable part of a defense to another. Another thing to keep in mind is you would never use am actual self defense technique in a real situation you would use parts from various techniques to do what is neccessary to defend yourself.

 

[Kenpo Yahoo]

I have seen this clip before, but I had the opportunity to view again when someone posted this link the other day. Check out the effectiveness of a shin block against a low round kick

http://www.dogbrothers.com/multimedia/kick-bre.mpg

Oh yeah, and in case you doubt the effectiveness of a good back kick, take a look at this....

http://www.dogbrothers.com/multimedia/horse.mpg