Dangerous Practices...

geezer

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As I'm getting a bit older, I''m discovering that it is unwise for me to continue certain training practices that were a routine part of a good workout when I was in my teens and twenties. There are so many "old school" training practices that are really unwise ...especially if overdone, over the years. An acquaintance of mine was once a champion powerlifter in his weightclass and an early member of Jhoon Rhee's demo team in the late 60's or early 70's. He's having two knee replacements (I mean, my lord!!!, have you seen what they do in that operation?) And he's a mere babe in his mid 60's. I'm even younger, but I want to keep this up until I'm at least 90! That means I have to seriously consider the long term effect of many training practices that are unecessarily hard on the body. "If a hundred reps are good, a thousand reps are better!" and "No pain, no gain" is great advice if you want to end up a useless, old cripple!

So what do you think? Does your martial art advocate training methods that, in the long run, are dangerous and destructive to your body? If so what are these practices and how do you plan to adjust your training as you get older?
 

terryl965

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I train like I have always trained at 100%, now with that being said my 100% today is probaly like 75% of yester years. I mean the body can only take so much nomatter who you are. I wil say this when GOD wants you to slow down his message will come though loud and clear.
 

K-man

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As I'm getting a bit older, I''m discovering that it is unwise for me to continue certain training practices that were a routine part of a good workout when I was in my teens and twenties. There are so many "old school" training practices that are really unwise ...especially if overdone, over the years. An acquaintance of mine was once a champion powerlifter in his weightclass and an early member of Jhoon Rhee's demo team in the late 60's or early 70's. He's having two knee replacements (I mean, my lord!!!, have you seen what they do in that operation?) And he's a mere babe in his mid 60's. I'm even younger, but I want to keep this up until I'm at least 90! That means I have to seriously consider the long term effect of many training practices that are unecessarily hard on the body. "If a hundred reps are good, a thousand reps are better!" and "No pain, no gain" is great advice if you want to end up a useless, old cripple!

So what do you think? Does your martial art advocate training methods that, in the long run, are dangerous and destructive to your body? If so what are these practices and how do you plan to adjust your training as you get older?
45 years ago on the wall we had the sign "To train without pain is to train in vain". That was my adage until I kept training with a shoulder injury that got worse the longer I kept going. That required 3 months immobilisation and caused me to rethink the to old premise. Now like any of you who trained back a few years, I have kept training with broken toes, cracked ribs and a flattened nose. The one that is slowing me down most is chronic back stiffness and soreness (probably a bit of arthritis) but my greatest fear is that the knees will go.
So my training is modified. I no longer do any exercise that causes pain (to me ... joint locks are fine on others
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). I don't jog and I'm careful with the stretches, and I don't jump around when sparring.
At the end of the day I can still keep up with all the young guys. What it has done to my classes though is make me more aware of the effect of the training on others and I stress that they must not push themselves too far over their limits.
Like you geezer, I want to still be training at 90 ... still so much to learn. :asian:
 

Guardian

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I train like I have always trained at 100%, now with that being said my 100% today is probaly like 75% of yester years. I mean the body can only take so much nomatter who you are. I wil say this when GOD wants you to slow down his message will come though loud and clear.

LOL. I'll help myself first and slow down before the big guy sends his message, I don't particulary feel like waiting to see how his message plays out. My knee was screwed up 15 years ago and through careful workouts and training, I've managed to evade the surgery portion all this time. It's coming but not until after I retire a 2nd time and have time to sit around and recuperate.
 

Bruno@MT

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You also have to train smart. Alternate between muscle groups, focus on different parts of the body, alternate between locking / striking etc...

When doing JJ 10 years ago, I spent 6 months on locks. Which ended with my wrists and elbows being chronically inflamed.

Bas Rutten mentioned in an interview that he'd never fight again because he had zero cartilege left in his knees. He says it happened because of training 100% all the time, using the slogan 'pain is weakness leaving the body'
He says that if you train smart and alternate a lot and don't force through your injuries, you will be fine. But do like he did, and you'll end up like he did.
 

Akira

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I'm training harder now than ever before, but I am listening to my body a lot more than I used to. Noticing the difference between good pain and bad pain helps as well.
 

jim777

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I often look around in my TKD and Karate classes and wonder how many of the same people I'll eventually see in Taiji classes when I get at bit older :lol: We're all so fortunate there are so many arts out there to study that are both worthwhile self defense and good exercise. :asian:

I have to admit though, I've always been one to stop when something got painful. The only activities I 'fight through the pain' for are sit up/crunches type exercises. I really don't want to mess up my joints, especially my wrists. I love the Martial Arts, but if I woke up one day too damaged to ever play the piano or guitar again...I honestly don't know what I'd do.
 

rmclain

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This topic is the entire reason Chayon-Ryu (Natural Way) was created - so people of all ages can train and benefit with a greatly reduced chance of injury - whether sudden or progressive.

Grandmaster Kim Soo designed the teaching method of Chayon-Ryu from watching and experiencing the injuries and health problems of past training methods. He's used his schools in Houston since 1968, U of H (since 1973) and Rice University (since 1981) as teaching "proving grounds" to constantly refine the method. Most of the students at his dojangs are adults, some in their 70's and 80's. GM Kim Soo turns 70 this year and is still on the floor teaching and training several days per week.

I use this example because this is where I came from. But, I think its example could be followed by any art. While the techniques and requirements could mostly stay the same, the manner in which they are practiced and taught could evolve to include people other than the young and athletic. Imagine taking what was once designed for destructive purposes, and re-fitting it to be a positive influence and part of someone's life, regardless of age.

R. McLain





As I'm getting a bit older, I''m discovering that it is unwise for me to continue certain training practices that were a routine part of a good workout when I was in my teens and twenties. There are so many "old school" training practices that are really unwise ...especially if overdone, over the years. An acquaintance of mine was once a champion powerlifter in his weightclass and an early member of Jhoon Rhee's demo team in the late 60's or early 70's. He's having two knee replacements (I mean, my lord!!!, have you seen what they do in that operation?) And he's a mere babe in his mid 60's. I'm even younger, but I want to keep this up until I'm at least 90! That means I have to seriously consider the long term effect of many training practices that are unecessarily hard on the body. "If a hundred reps are good, a thousand reps are better!" and "No pain, no gain" is great advice if you want to end up a useless, old cripple!

So what do you think? Does your martial art advocate training methods that, in the long run, are dangerous and destructive to your body? If so what are these practices and how do you plan to adjust your training as you get older?
 

Aiki Lee

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I think aiki movements are good for this purpose because they don't require using a lot of energy that can cause strain or injury to yourself.
 
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geezer

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Thanks for making the connection to your thread from 2007. You and Xue can always be counted on for some well thought out posts.

The problem with avoiding injuries is that "common sense isn't common". And beyond that cliche, how can you tell when you are overdoing it? It can be hard to tell the difference between the "good" soreness of a great workout and the "pain" that is a warning signal of a serious problem developing. And you can't put all your faith in your Sifu/Sensei/Sobum/Guro or coach. I've seen some very skilled instructors spew terrible advice when it comes to health issues outside of their area of expertise. If you don't have access to a really knowledgeable trainer or other health care professional... you are left making judgements on the basis of your best guesses.
 

Live True

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I think there are some of us that don't want pain to become an excuse for being lazy...so we sometimes train thru the pain just to make sure it's really serious pain and not just...well..an excuse to train softer one day....
 

JBrainard

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"If a hundred reps are good, a thousand reps are better!" and "No pain, no gain" is great advice if you want to end up a useless, old cripple!

"No pain, no gain" is such an antiquated and dangerous concept that I wince every time I hear it (no pun intended).

Does your martial art advocate training methods that, in the long run, are dangerous and destructive to your body?

Lucky for me, no it doesn't. The art I study isn't really that "old school" anyway, but the more "traditional" aspects of the art that are there have been modified so that long term injury can be avoided.
 

qwksilver61

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This is where the quote "cunning and treachery overcomes youth and skill" comes into play. Remember this guys/gals! Tripping,sand in the eye,looking up..while saying "oh s*%@t!" pointing behind your opponent,Hey what's that? anybody else? Cunnng fu? Treachery do?
 

Kacey

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This is where the quote "cunning and treachery overcomes youth and skill" comes into play. Remember this guys/gals! Tripping,sand in the eye,looking up..while saying "oh s*%@t!" pointing behind your opponent,Hey what's that? anybody else? Cunnng fu? Treachery do?

Cunning Fu, that's the way to go - right up there with Nike Do!

As Terry said, I can't train the way I did when I first stared at 20 - but I'm still learning as much as I can, with the "train smarter, not harder" method.
 

BLACK LION

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My military training really began to effect my knees and hips.
If I had continued for a decade or so, the damage may have become permanent in my later years. Most of the time its the dumbest little things that are stressed but can be done without... like running on cement all the time.
 

Whitebelt

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This thread is very useful to me due to my recent four knee surgeries, I am almost ready to go back to training for the second time so I would love to hear what things others in my position have had to learn the hard way so I don't have to. Is there anything I should be careful of? Any particular attitude to keep toward training that will help me? Anything at all would be much appreciated.
 

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