cults

[tshadowchaser]

Have we indoctrinated our children into cults?

For an example if you are a Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc. student you may have been told that the arts coming from that country are the only arts to study. From the day you start you are told they are the only true arts and any other arts are but shadows of what you do, with no substance. You marry and have children, starting them in your “true” art at the youngest of ages and they hear this redirect from day one. By the time they are 20 they have been told thousands of times that the only true arts are the art of that county and all others should be avoided.
Is this brainwashing and cultism?

 

[theletch1]

Here's the definition of "cult". The popular definition of cult would be something along the Jim Jones group, Scientology, or that group that killed themselves to board the "space ship" (the name escapes me at the moment) that was supposed to be behind the comet. As far as the popular def. goes I'd say that it's not cultism as it doesn't preclude operating in normal society on a rational level. Is it brainwashing? Well, it's certainly psychological conditioning. As a westerner studying an eastern art I'd be a bit stretched to attempt to convince my son that NGA was the only art worth studying...especially since I don't believe that myself.

I can see where there is room for concern. Anything, martial arts or not, if preached as the one and only way has potential to be harmful.

 

[tshadowchaser]

please people do not take offence by this but I was watching a documentary on Hitler and the occult today and many of the things said about the way he organized the Nazi party and the ranks of his close advisors seemed to me to be in direct relation to the way many organizations today are ordered and ran. That is way I ask this question.
Do we instill upon our children a type of cultism and unwavering faith in the systems we first put them in

i by no means am saying that we are like Hitler

 

[exile]

I think Jeff's on the right track here. We really need to distinguish between extreme parochialism and closed-mindedness on the one hand and cults on the other. There is a very specific set of social abnormalities that go along with cults, but aren't inherent in extreme chauvinistic beliefs of whatever kinds. The French wine-bigot who makes a great show of gagging when the subject of Spanish or American wine is brought up may be a xenophobic jerk, but s/he probably doesn't live under the kinds of pathological social and psychological conditions that cluster together in the cult phenomenon. That's something very specific.

That doesn't mean that cultural bigotry isn't damaging and destructive. But it does mean that we need to handle it, and attempt to deal with it, somewhat differently than we deal with the cult syndrome, I think...

 

[tshadowchaser]

good points on this

 

[IcemanSK]

I'm with Jeff & exile on the differences.

 

[Shotochem]

Hi All,

Here is a useful link for the Rick Ross institute which has an extensive database and current info on cults of all types.

Main page: http://www.rickross.com/general_info.html

Cult database: http://www.rickross.com/sg_alpha.html

I usually don't like to post links but these are pretty informative. The sight also has the latest cult news, resources and links.


-Marc-

 

[Steel Tiger]

please people do not take offence by this but I was watching a documentary on Hitler and the occult today and many of the things said about the way he organized the Nazi party and the ranks of his close advisors seemed to me to be in direct relation to the way many organizations today are ordered and ran. That is way I ask this question.
Do we instill upon our children a type of cultism and unwavering faith in the systems we first put them in

i by no means am saying that we are like Hitler

I can see how easily one can see parallels between some Nazi organisations and some modern martial arts schools. But, as Jeff said, it comes down to the degree to which the members are allowed to interact with the world beyond the group.

I don't think that Nazi organisations were cults, it was simply a case of them not needing to interact with society beyond the group because the group was at the top of German society. At the time all of Germany was suffering something of a charismatic cult effect with respect to its attitude towards Hitler.

Martial art schools cannot really dictate with whom a student interacts. So, as much as we might find members of our community vehemently espousing the cause of one art over another, and trying to lead students and children into the same way of thinking, they cannot stop those same students and children from talking to other people (that starts to drift into legal matters).

While cultural bigotry and dogmatic pronouncements about which art is best are frustrating and worrying, I don't think we need to fear martial arts becoming more cult-like. Unless someone starts a martial arts boarding school or something like that, then I might start to wonder.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Have we indoctrinated our children into cults?

For an example if you are a Korean, Japanese, Chinese, etc. student you may have been told that the arts coming from that country are the only arts to study. From the day you start you are told they are the only true arts and any other arts are but shadows of what you do, with no substance. You marry and have children, starting them in your “true” art at the youngest of ages and they hear this redirect from day one. By the time they are 20 they have been told thousands of times that the only true arts are the art of that county and all others should be avoided.
Is this brainwashing and cultism?

Yes it is.
Sean

 

[Razorfoot]

I have seen this in a lot of schools but never took much of it seriously. Young children are much more impressionable than adults and can be shaped into thinking that their art is the only art by an instructor with that mentality but as martial artists and as parents, we can add perspective to a skewed viewpoint our children may be exposed to. We can make them aware of the varying aspects of many martial arts and let them know that when the choices are so broad and far reaching, there are many ways to accomplish the same thing.

Scottie

 

[Guardian]

I think Jeff's on the right track here. We really need to distinguish between extreme parochialism and closed-mindedness on the one hand and cults on the other. There is a very specific set of social abnormalities that go along with cults, but aren't inherent in extreme chauvinistic beliefs of whatever kinds. The French wine-bigot who makes a great show of gagging when the subject of Spanish or American wine is brought up may be a xenophobic jerk, but s/he probably doesn't live under the kinds of pathological social and psychological conditions that cluster together in the cult phenomenon. That's something very specific.

That doesn't mean that cultural bigotry isn't damaging and destructive. But it does mean that we need to handle it, and attempt to deal with it, somewhat differently than we deal with the cult syndrome, I think...

I'll go along with this take on it as it's close to my view on it.