Credit testing fees

JDoe

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Hi all. My first post...
I'm currently have a Probation Black Belt. Been doing TKD for about 2.5 years (Started in college for about a year. Stopped. Back in it for almost 2 years now).
I do like the school I am in now, instructors, etc.
Color belts took about 3 months each with what I feel are typical testing fees (about $60).
Black belt test is 6 months after Prob BB.
A "credit test" has popped up 3 months into my Prob BB life (involves the BB students as well). Will cost $60.
I don't necessarily mind the credit test or fee. It's variable as to how many credit tests pop up during the year according to other students in the school. I can't really get a straight answer. I do know that my friend (in same school) went from Prob BB to BB without a credit test.
These credit tests seem to occur roughly every 3 months. About the same frequency as the average time between color belts.

Is 4 credit tests with associated fees (for BB's) per year typical?

Thx.
 

shesulsa

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Yeah, I have never heard of this. WTF is a "credit test?"
 

Blindside

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Sounds like the instructor is trying to maintain a line of income on students that he has promoted to black belt. Does anyone ever fail a "credit test?"
 

Dirty Dog

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I think "Credit Test" may be short for "Credit Card Bill is due"...
 
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JDoe

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-The credit test is a 2-day test (usually 2 saturdays), several hours each. Apparently, the idea is to show your progress within your rank. Each student needs so many credits (I don't know the number) before testing for next level black belt.
-I don't know if anyone has failed a credit test. To be honest, I highly doubt it. The only test I've seen with the other BB's (their credit test) was my Prob BB test and the students in general were quite good.
-I don't doubt the fact that these tests are there, in part, to maintain income for our instructor and dojang. To say otherwise would be pure denial. It appears that credit testing is not the norm, at least based on the responses thus far.
 

jks9199

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So... You test for "probationary" black belt. Your performance over a year is monitored, and at some random interval, you do several "credit tests" to see if you're still training and learning, and then you get to test again for "real" black belt? And each test has a fee of at least $60...

I smell a "boat payment" coming due.

I don't begrudge the guy making a living. But some of this seems a bit suspicious and underhanded to me.
 

shesulsa

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Man. It really pisses me off how some people make money.
 

Gemini

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why don't you just ask your instructor what the promotion/fee schedule looks like? I go over all this up front with new students just to avoid stuff like this.
 

Miles

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I don't have a problem with someone trying to eke out a living, but the whole concept of probationary belts seems kind of odd to me. Are any under-black belt ranks probationary? When I promote someone to black belt, they get their Kukkiwon certificate and their Chung Do Kwan certificate. If I don't feel like they will represent me or the dojang well, they don't get promoted. Simple as that...
 
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JDoe

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Ok, ok...
My Probation Black Belt belt (um, does that make sense?) is half red, half black. I have seen this belt in many schools before. This is simply the title that is given to this particular belt in our school. I wouldn't think that this particular belt color scheme would come as a surprise. I will not use the word belt again in this paragraph... ;)

[/belt progression in my school: white, yellow, orange, green, purple, blue, brown, prob black (half black/red), black].
Roughly three months between belts (except Prob black) depending on attendance, performance,etc. No credit tests for color belts. No probation for color belts.
Prob black duration is typically 6 months.
From what I have gathered, there is often one credit test between Prob black and Black belt.
Once you have black belt, credit tests are available between 1st, 2nd degree, etc. These tests are typically every 3-4 months. And yes, payment of $60 is required if you choose to attend. There are a certain number of credits (I don't know how many) required to obtain next degree of black belt.
An actual black belt test (1st, 2nd deg...) where you will have a brand spankin' new black belt, will cost around 500 bucks (I'm not sure of actual cost, but this is definitely ballpark).
 

Gentle Fist

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We don't have anything like that in Judo... We don't pay to test until black belt and that fee goes to the USJA. 1st Dan is $125 and each rank there after increases by $25 per rank. We also have a 3 to 5 years wait time between dan ranks so you won't go broke doing Judo. I haven't paid for Judo in almost 4 years... But I am close to being tested again so better get the check book ready :)
 

shesulsa

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It is important to note that the style of TKD only has a bad reputation amongst people like us. What we need to accept is that style doesn't sell ... marketing sells. This business model has people like our new friend here by the short 'n' curlies; he has put time and money and effort towards his rank and they are dangling the carrot and raking in the dough.

Maybe if you get fries with it ... supersize.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 

Archtkd

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Sounds like the instructor is trying to maintain a line of income on students that he has promoted to black belt. Does anyone ever fail a "credit test?"

That's exactly what it looks like. This is usually done by dojangs where testing fees make up a significant fraction of cash flow. It's common in a number of contract dojangs, where revenue are shaky because the owner has fallen into the habit of converting contracts to immediate cash by selling those contracts at a discount, to third-party financial operators and collectors. Very few people ask about testing fees when enrolling in dojangs.
 

Gentle Fist

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It is important to note that the style of TKD only has a bad reputation amongst people like us. What we need to accept is that style doesn't sell ... marketing sells. This business model has people like our new friend here by the short 'n' curlies; he has put time and money and effort towards his rank and they are dangling the carrot and raking in the dough.

Maybe if you get fries with it ... supersize.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

I want fries with my next belt... hmmmm trans fat :barf:
 

Marcy Shoberg

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Don't assume all Taekwondo instructors do things such as this. What gets me is when a taekwondo school uses the half red and half black belt as adding in an extra rank between red belt and black belt. The belt is officially to be used as a black belt for students 15 and younger. Now, I would think it was a good idea to have some progress check tests between 1st degree and 2nd degree black belt since the students are used to testing every few months but after black belt may not test again for more than a year. But, if there is to be a fee for these progress check tests, I would think the money paid should be applied to the final test fee for the next rank. That way, the students would also benefit from paying for their next degree in installments instead of having to come up with a large amount of money at once.

There was a dojang in my town that did this credit testing thing. They recently closed for financhial reasons so now I have a few new students who are at various "levels" of first degree black belt and are surprised to see that I don't have any test fees besides for the next dan rank.
 
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JDoe

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Thx for input everyone.
I had visited 4 schools in my area and actually left out the schools that seemed fishy! I couldn't believe who passed themselves off as an instructor.
Every one of them had some sort of contract that was ultimately quite vague and full of smoke and mirrors. In general, schools are not usually up front with the students, at least in my area.

The initial school I had trained with was in another city. No contract. Paid month to month. Fair testing schedule and fee for color belts. However, I was there for less than a year then moved away, so I don't know what happened after black belt, etc. I have yet to find a school like that and probably never will. It was also located in a city where, in general, life is much cheaper.

I think fees and contracts have to do with the city, economy of certain areas, as well as competing schools, which as a whole, set up a standard that is ultimately accepted by all. This ends up leaving little choice to the interested student.
It would be nice if it was all romantic and cozy and we could have an instructor who only cared about teaching their art and lived in a shack (was the Karate Kid real?). Unfortunately, like any other successful business, this is not the case.

You wouldn't believe the number of martial arts schools I have seen come and go in my area. Got a black belt? There is leasable space in a mini-mall near you!! I feel fortunate that where I am at now has at least weathered the economy and found a way to survive.
I am obligated to 2nd deg BB at this point. Paid in full... The average monthly payment over this period of time turns out to be a shade under $100/month. This flat fee I paid up front included 2 nice Adidas uniforms (around 100 bucks a pop) and a bag with complete sparring equipment, swords, nunchuks, etc (? cost).

To be blunt, this credit testing has me by the balls and I feel there is nothing I can do about it.
Oh well. Miyagi doesn't live in my area...
Squashed like grape :(
 

Jaeimseu

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I personally don't see anything wrong with adding in extra belts. People here often complain that the time to black belt is too short. One way of lengthening the time is adding extra ranks to progress through. This process allows students to get something new (belt) every 2 or 3 months, which these days is a good motivator, especially for kids. It would be nice if society today was a little more patient, but the fact is people tend to get bored easily, and then they quit. It's easy to say, "If they quit because of that, good riddance." In my opinion, Taekwondo training is valuable for the student, so anything that keeps them motivated and keeps them training has some merit. If the school owner can make some money, too, I'd say that's win-win.

As for "credit" testings, I don't really have an issue with that, either. Actually, my sabumnim just put in something similar this year at our dojang. He wants to push the black belts to train harder and not be complacent if they want to progress in rank. So they have to do check-up tests a certain number of times before they can go to Kukkiwon for their next rank test. In our case, we don't charge much if anything for these testings, but I can see why an instructor would charge. It's much easier to tell the students that testings cost x amount than to try to explain why this testing has a fee but this other testing doesn't.
 

Markku P

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I personally don't see anything wrong with adding in extra belts. People here often complain that the time to black belt is too short. One way of lengthening the time is adding extra ranks to progress through. This process allows students to get something new (belt) every 2 or 3 months, which these days is a good motivator, especially for kids. It would be nice if society today was a little more patient, but the fact is people tend to get bored easily, and then they quit. It's easy to say, "If they quit because of that, good riddance." In my opinion, Taekwondo training is valuable for the student, so anything that keeps them motivated and keeps them training has some merit. If the school owner can make some money, too, I'd say that's win-win.

I agree. We should do everything to get people to stay in Taekwondo as long as possible, so why not use belts and belt system.

/Markku P
 

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